Wikipedia Talk:WikiProject College Football
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Wikipedia Talk:WikiProject College Football
WikiProject College football (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject College football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of College football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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Overall record / Last meeting / Result tables

In the "Game summaries" sections of the team season articles, there's been a proliferation of tables noting "Overall record / Last meeting / Result" versus each opponent. These tend to be prevalent in more recent seasons, e.g. 2019 Florida State Seminoles football team#Game summaries. Last year, I briefly raised this topic at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football/Archive 23#Some MAJOR inconsistencies. UCO2009bluejay and I agreed there that these tables were crufty clutter. Any objections to a mass deletion of the tables? Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 03:28, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

@Jweiss11: I add these to game summaries because I thought it was the consensus; I would definitely not object to a mass deletion, as they don't add a ton and getting rid of them would certainly make the article-creation process quicker. I'm happy to help with said deletion as well if that's the option we go with. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 03:33, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
  • No objection. Cbl62 (talk) 03:35, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Note: here's a search result that I think gets all or most of the articles with these tables: [1] @Lepricavark: would you be willing to help out with deleting these? Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 03:48, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

It would be better if there were some way of automating it. Going through each article one by one might be too tedious even for me. LEPRICAVARK (talk) 07:21, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for working on this. Will we have a consistent format that we can use on the game sections?-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 14:26, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
I would like to have a consensus format for game summary sections, and I'd be more than willing to work on conversions, though it'll be quite the task. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 16:27, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

@Primefac: do you think it's possible to automate the deletion of this content with a bot? @Jpp858:, @Seanmyers2004: you both do a lot of work on current season articles. Any thoughts about this topic? Jweiss11 (talk) 01:10, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Can it be done? Probably. If the removals don't all look the same (e.g. like this), then it won't necessarily be easy. Primefac (talk) 03:20, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
I personally like these boxes just because they add more information for the reader to digest, but I can see how they can be a clutter on mobile devices and the like. I don't quite know if there is a way, but like @Primefac: said, it probably can be done. Even if not, I am sure it can be manually done quite simply.--Seanmyers2004 (talk) 17:51, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
If there are almost 2k uses, it makes more sense to do it by a bot, but with that many uses there should be a reasonable consensus to do so. Primefac (talk) 18:31, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Consensus for bot to delete?

Can we build a consensus to run a bot to delete these tables? I certainly support it. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:20, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

  • I support running a bot; if for some reason that does not work I will certainly help out with manual deletion. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 04:17, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Support removing as trivial and bulky.--Bagumba (talk) 06:35, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Support. Cbl62 (talk) 04:33, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
@Primefac: is this enough to move foward? Jweiss11 (talk) 21:53, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
Heh, I guess so. Might take me a while to figure out how to remove everything with the least amount of disruption. Primefac (talk) 20:25, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
@Primefac: please keep us posted on hour progress with this. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 20:47, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
This has been towards the bottom of my list, but I can't think of what's near the top, so I guess this is now it. Primefac (talk) 21:03, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

The first 10 diffs of removal from the list, please check them to make sure nothing has gone awry (everything looks good from my end though). Primefac (talk) 22:39, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Primefac, thanks for getting on this. Looks like too much is being deleted. Take 2017 Syracuse Orange football team for example. We only want to get rid of the "Overall record/Last meeting/Result" tables. The scoring summaries using Template:Linescore Amfootball should be kept. Jweiss11 (talk) 23:25, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
On 1994 Oregon Ducks football team way too much was deleted including sourced prose. Jweiss11 (talk) 23:26, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
Feel free to revert anything that's not done correctly, but I guess I'm now confused - I thought the whole point of this discussion/request was to remove these sections as they contained no more useful information than the Scheduling section (and/or too much crufty info). Primefac (talk) 14:03, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
Primefac, he point of this discussion was to remove only the "Overall record / Last meeting / Results" tables and nothing else. See this edit of mine for what should be removed at 2016 Missouri Tigers football team. Does this make sense? Jweiss11 (talk) 16:00, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
Okay, so we're talking edits more along these lines? Primefac (talk) 02:08, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
That looks perfect to me. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 03:14, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
@Primefac: Yes, that looks good! Jweiss11 (talk) 03:17, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
Cool. Primefac (talk) 10:45, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

I've got a bot request set up for this task, but there are questions that this group would be better at answering. Thanks! Primefac (talk) 14:12, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

. Primefac (talk) 23:04, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Head coach article deleted

FYI - A recent AfD on a Division II head football coach (popflock.com Resource: Articles for deletion/Alvin Parker - head coach for two years at Virginia Union) closed with a determination to delete. This is the first time that a college football head coach article has been deleted in eight or more years. Some votes appear to have been influenced by accusations of paid editing and conflict of interest, but others advocated a broader view that an ordinary Division II coach is not sufficiently notable to have a stand-alone article. Cbl62 (talk) 19:16, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

I wish someone had brought this AFD to this project's attention before it closed. The closing admin also removed Parker entirely from Template:Virginia Union Panthers football coach navbox, which I just reverted. What did the article look like? @Spartaz: can you restore the article to my user space? Jweiss11 (talk) 21:19, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
Well, it was listed on popflock.com Resource: WikiProject College football/Article alerts. I have that page watchlisted, but I didn't notice the discussion. I've made a cursory search on newspapers.com but didn't see the kind of in-depth profiles that help make coaching articles viable. Mackensen (talk) 21:59, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
I can't view the sources in the AfD since those websites aren't compatible with my region, but it seems to be a sensible result. There's only a smattering of local coverage. I looked up my local soccer team's manager just now and the press coverage is honestly very similar (local, transactional, occasional local feature story), and that local soccer team is several tiers too low to have any of their staff be considered notable without a good showing of WP:GNG. This project generally errs on the side of keep when a local paper writes about someone, and AfDs are generally attended by only the members of this project which have a wider stance of WP:GNG than the project at large, I've found, so my takeaway from this is Division II coaching articles could get deleted at AfD if there's any sort of attendance at AfD from people outside the project. SportingFlyer T·C 22:43, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
Parker appears to have been a close case. This piece qualifies and is from the newspaper of record for a state of 8.5 million, but I'm less sure about the other cited sources. No reason to dig deeper since this one's closed, so for now, "it is what it is." Cbl62 (talk) 01:29, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

RfD for Akron, Dayton season articles.

Hello y'all. There is an RfD at 1920 Akron football team that editors may be interested in participating in.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 21:59, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Tex Coulter

I noticed he is in the 1946 Army championship infobox, but he is listed as a player for the New York Giants (as well as being a first round pick in 47 by the Chicago Cardinals.) Why is this player in particular so disjointed on the timelines?-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 22:23, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Looks like Coulter failed out of the USMA in in the summer of 1946 and did not play on the 1946 Army team. The Army media guide lists him as a letterman only for 1944 and 1945. I removed him from Template:1946 Army Cadets football navbox. Seems he played in the NFL with the Giants in 1946 and then was drafted by the Cardinals in 1947, but remained with the Giants after a deal was made between the two teams; see: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/61374536/new-castle-news/. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:39, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Two "football standings" pages with too many expensive parser functions

1934 college football season was over the limit until recently. If other conferences are added, it may go over the limit again.

See Category:Pages with too many expensive parser function calls for a full list of popflock.com resource pages with too many expensive parser function calls.

The "quick fix" is to identify "notable seasons" and create pages for them, then edit the conference-season template to link to the actual article rather than calling {{cfb link}}. For each page created, the expensive parser function count goes down by at least 1. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 23:02, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Just a note here on operations. Cfb link is set up such that once an actual article is created, a bot will go around and update all the relevant calls of cfb link to a direct link to the new article. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:21, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Give that bot a barnstar tickets to every bowl game as a reward for its service. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 04:22, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Good idea. I presume bots can attend live sporting events during the pandemic! Jweiss11 (talk) 23:09, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

CfD: Category:Ozarks Eagles football

I have nominated Category:Ozarks Eagles football for renaming. Please see the discussion here. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 23:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Bot that manages {{cfb link}}

@Jweiss11: a couple threads up you mentioned a bot that replaces uses of {{cfb link}} with the actual article name if the article exists.

What else do that bot do with respect to this template? I have some ideas of how to use a bot to greatly reduce the expensive parser function count, but I need to know where to start. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 19:52, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

The bot in question is User:AnomieBOT, which is managed by User:Anomie. I don't believe the bot does anything else related to this template, but it appears to perform many other tasks. Jweiss11 (talk) 19:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Discussion for building consensus on the title for the 2017 UCF National champions navbox

Currently the title has no indication that 2017 UCF was not the consensus national champion. It looks like the title has been changed several times so I'm trying to establish a title by consensus at Template talk:2017 UCF Knights football navbox. Best, GPL93 (talk) 12:46, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

  • Are there secondary sources naming them as the national champion outside of the school, since it is not officially listed? Maybe this should go to TfD instead of arguing over the title. SportingFlyer T·C 13:53, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
SportingFlyer Generally, for non-consensus national titles we include the entity within the navbox's title (see: Template:1974 USC Trojans football navbox ("UPI National Champions") and (Template:1960 Ole Miss Rebels football navbox ("FWAA National Champions")) in order to indicate that they were not the sole national champion. UCF's title is weird in that their's is a national title awarded from an entity that is not recognized and always went unclaimed until they did. The issue is that some editors have removed the Colley Matrix part from the title, which can cause confusion as a different team was established as a consensus national champion in 2017. Best, GPL93 (talk) 14:16, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
I was under the impression the championship was not officially awarded until a couple decades ago, and they did not win the official championship. I'd still probably favour removing it entirely if that's the case. SportingFlyer T·C 14:33, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
The Colley Matrix is an official national championship selector, and UCF is recognized as such in the NCAA guidebooks, but they obviously are not consensus champs. The infobox should clarify this. Toa Nidhiki05 14:37, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Montgomery Bowl navbox

Ambox warning blue.svgTemplate:Montgomery Bowl navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Fbdave (talk) 00:12, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Cfd: Category:Tri-State Conference (1960-1978)

I have nominated Category:Tri-State Conference (1960-1978) and its subcategories for renaming as the Tri-State Conference (1960-1981) exited until 1981, not 1978. Please see the discussion here. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 22:24, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

COVID interim coaches

In cases where a head coach misses a game because of COVID-19, does he receive the official credit for the win/loss or does it go to whoever was named interim for the game? There are at least two situations where this has come up: Mike Norvell/Chris Thomsen and Scotty Walden/Tim Billings. The only place where the interim credit is noted is Thomsen. http://stats.ncaa.org/head_coaches credits the games to Norvell and Walden. Mackensen (talk) 00:40, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Per NCAA rules, in cases where the permanent head coach is inactive but still employed by the school, it's up to the school to decide who gets credited with the win, the permanent head coach or the interim/acting head. For example, Mike Krzyzewski missed a game in 2018, and Jeff Capel III served as acting head coach; see here. But Duke credited all games that year to Krzyzewski. In contrast, when Krzyzewski missed more than half of the 1994-95 season, Pete Gaudet was credited as the head coach of record for those games. The Norvell/Thomsen looks different from Walden/Billings. Walden was hired by Austin Peay on October 27 and it doesn't look he's coaching Southern Miss anymore. Thomsen looks like he just filled in a game for Norvell. I suspect Novell is the head coach of record for all games including the one he missed. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:59, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, that makes sense. It's screwy, but Walden did miss a Southern Miss game because of COVID before taking the Austin Peay job. Billings was the replacement for that game, and is now, separately, the interim head coach. Mackensen (talk) 03:13, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Vacated Victories article

Many many moons ago we had discussions here about how we would cover vacated victories. That eventually led to an essay and sandbox piece that I started (as User:Nolelover at the time). I just came back to the sandbox and put an afternoon into it--unfortunately it doesn't seem like @Cmadler:, @Levdr1lp: or @JohnInDC: are around anymore, so I wanted to invite the project here to look over the piece before it gets moved to mainspace. I have the barebones and will eventually expand the history/some facts about its use. Any help gratefully appreciated -- Alyo (chat·edits) 23:57, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

with respect to the sandbox piece, the topic of "vacated victories" strikes me as notable and worthy of an article. Cbl62 (talk) 22:16, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
Much appreciated Cbl, I'll move and start linking to it then. Alyo (chat·edits) 00:12, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Multiple head coaches in Template:Infobox college sports team season

I've proposed adding formal support for interim head coaches to {{Infobox college sports team season}}. Feedback appreciated at Template talk:Infobox college sports team season#Multiple head coaches. Thanks, Mackensen (talk) 01:17, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Update to peer review page

Hi all, I've boldly updated your project's peer review page (popflock.com Resource: WikiProject College football/Peer review) by updating the instructions and archiving old reviews.

The new instructions use Wikipedia's general peer review process (WP:PR) to list peer reviews. Your project's reviews are still able to be listed on your local page too.

The benefits of this change is that review requests will get seen by a wider audience and are likely to be attended to in a more timely way (many WikiProject peer reviews remain unanswered after years). The popflock.com resource peer review process is also more maintained than most WikiProjects, and this may help save time for your active members.

I've done this boldly as it seems your peer review page is pretty inactive and I am working through around 90 such similar peer review pages. Please feel free to discuss below - please ping me in your response.

Cheers and hope you are well, Tom (LT) (talk) 23:49, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

CFD: Category:Tri-State Conference (1960-1981) and related

Category:Tri-State Conference (1960-1981) and two of its subcats have been nominated for deletion. Please see the discussion here. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:49, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

This discussion has stalled without a clear consensus. More input would be helpful. Thanks. Jweiss11 (talk) 20:58, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Markus Paul

Is there anyone willing to help expand the playing career section of the Markus Paul article? Would be helpful to getting it on the recent deaths section of the front page.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 22:55, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

More conference CfDs

I have a two more nominations for category renaming related to Gateway Conference (1962-1975) and Oklahoma Collegiate Conference. Please see the discussions here and here. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 21:25, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

WikiConference North America

Hey all! I am planning on having a WikiConference North America sports panel December 12 3:00 EST. This is something that has never been done before and there are many sports which are "native" to North America and part of the America identity. What it seems to be is that we (you, me, and other members of WikiSports) will be in a Zoom (or other video conferencing app) to discuss our experiences in editing sports on Wikipedia. These can range from combating vandalism to how to best get permission to use sports photos. The organizers of WikiConference North America (WCNA) created an Etherpad surrounding planning which I will link here. if you Command F "sports" you will find the section. This will be the very first panel WCNA has ever had on sports so not much to go off of here.

Please ping me if you have questions as this page is not on my watchlist. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 20:50, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

CfD/TfDs: University of South Florida Athletic Hall of Fame

I have nominated a template and two categories related to the University of South Florida Athletic Hall of Fame for deletion. Please see those discussions at popflock.com Resource: Templates for discussion/Log/2020 December 1#Template:University of South Florida Athletic Hall of Fame and popflock.com Resource: Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 1#University of South Florida Athletic Hall of Fame. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 22:00, 1 December 2020 (UTC)


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