User Talk:MZMcBride
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User Talk:MZMcBride

Module:Template:SCOTUSKey - is this a good name for a module?

(this is a genuine question, not an open salvo in an argument)

Hi. i wonder about the naming of this module. do you think it's a good practice to name the module "Template:XXX" (presuming XXX is the template that wants to use/invoke this module)?

are there guidelines anywhere for recommended naming of modules?

regardless of my personal/professional preferences, if there are such guidelines, i'll follow them. if there are no such guidelines, maybe it makes sense to write some...

just to clarify: my personal opinion is that this isn't a sensible name for the module - IMO, if one wants to state which template is expected to use the module, one should use comments in the code, and the best name for the module is something that tells you what it actually does, rather tan where it is used. e.g., for this one, maybe something like "Module:Extract tail digits" or somesuch. it's easy to think of other templates that will want to use this extraction. same question pertains to the actual function inside this module. again, my personal preference is for module and function names that tells you what they do, instead of telling you where they are used.

peace - (aka kipod) (talk) 17:01, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I don't think that Template: should be included in the module name. The vast majority of Modules will be used within templates, so Module:SCOTUSKey would be a better name. Using a pagename which is identical to that of an existing template would not prevent its use elsewhere, but it would indicate it's original or primary use. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:24, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
This was actually something that was discussed in #wikimedia-tech. I think prepending "Template" makes it very obvious what the module is supposed to be used for. You could probably get away with Module:SCOTUSKey, but does that mean Module:String is used by {{string}}? Legoktm (talk) 05:58, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
at the risk of coming out as an old fart, i'll repeat both my view and my question. my view is that in software, the name should not represent where something is used, but rather what it does. let's take this specific case as an example: we call the module "Module:Template:SCOTUSKey". it is used in a template called "SCOTUSKey". at the place we actually use it, i.e. in the template called "SCOTUSKey", we have something that looks like so: {{#invoke:Template:SCOTUSKey|some-function-name|some parameters}}. since we already *know* where we are when we invoke it, the module name carries with in zero information (somewhat reminds you the old joke, where a driver opens her window and asks a pedestrian "where am i?", only to be told "in your car").
my question is, "are there any guidelines for naming modules?".
peace - (aka kipod) (talk) 14:28, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi McBride, when I run this code, get the following error:

File "", line 67, in <module>
File "/opt/ts/python/2.7/lib/python2.7/site-packages/MySQLdb/", line 173, in execute
    self.errorhandler(self, exc, value)
File "/opt/ts/python/2.7/lib/python2.7/site-packages/MySQLdb/", line 36, in defaulterrorhandler
    raise errorclass, errorvalue
_mysql_exceptions.ProgrammingError: (1146, "Table 'urwiki_p.wikilove_log' doesn't exist")

what should I do? ? ? (talk) 17:41, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi. I confirmed that the WikiLove extension is installed at by looking at w:ur:Special:Version.
The issue you're hitting is that the Toolserver uses MySQL views in order to restrict access to certain sensitive MySQL tables or table columns. In this case, "urwiki" is the actual replicated database, while "urwiki_p" (with the "_p" suffix) is the public view of the "urwiki" database. When new database tables are added (by a MediaWiki extension such as WikiLove or in MediaWiki core), the Toolserver roots must explicitly add the table to the view(s). In this case, it looks like the urwiki_p view has not yet been updated:

(on enwiki_p)

mysql> show tables like 'wikilove%';
| Tables_in_enwiki_p (wikilove%) |
| wikilove_image_log             |
| wikilove_log                   |
2 rows in set (0.00 sec)

(on urwiki_p)

mysql> show tables like 'wikilove%';
Empty set (0.00 sec)
In order to resolve this, you'll need to file a ticket at <> asking for these two tables ("wikilove_image_log" and "wikilove_log") to be added to the urwiki_p MySQL view. Hope that helps. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:13, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) MZ, you might know the answer to a slightly-related problem that I have. My resource account was created after SUL was enabled, and so whenever I'm logged in on en.wp and I visit resource in another language, I'm also logged in there. There is one exception: Urdu Wikipedia never recognises me as logged in; and it's listed separately at the bottom of [1] under "List of unattached accounts"; and no matter how often I visit Special:MergeAccount, doesn't get listed there either. What is preventing the linking? --Redrose64 (talk) 11:27, 27 February 2013 (UTC) Now resolved. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:07, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Tag - you're it

Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, MZMcBride. You have new messages at Varnent's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Bot flag on French Wikipedia

Hello MZMcBride !

I think you could apply for bot flag for EdwardsBot, you should have no problem to get it Face-wink.svg Have a great day. -- t a r u s¡Dímelo! - 18:44, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Sure, done. --MZMcBride (talk) 06:01, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

You've got mail!

{{you've got mail|subject=Security|ts=18:59, 23 February 2013 (UTC)}}

Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 18:59, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Aye, just replied. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:03, 23 February 2013 (UTC) Resource: Lua requests

Hi MZMcBride, I noticed you contributed some Lua scripts at Module:Bananas and Module:Template:SCOTUSKey. I just created a request page for Lua scripts at Resource: Lua requests and if you write Lua scripts it'd be great if you could watchlist it. Thanks! Dcoetzee 23:18, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for the heads-up. I commented at Wikipedia talk:Lua requests. Generally, I'd like to see us get better about centralizing tech resources. I think individual wikis creating requests pages like this moves us further away from this goal. --MZMcBride (talk) 01:59, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

DC happy hour on Thursday, February 28!

Please join Wikimedia DC for Happy Hour at the Capitol City Brewery at Metro Center on Thursday, February 28 at 6 p.m. All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, see Resource: Meetup/DC 34. Hope to see you there! Harej (talk) 02:23, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Whee. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 05:52, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Great seeing you there. Cheers! bd2412 T 05:04, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Yes, great to see you as well! I'm hoping we (Wikimedia DC) can get better about planning meetups earlier and more regularly (probably monthly). Longer discussions ahead. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 05:19, 2 March 2013 (UTC)


Some cookies to welcome you! Face-smile.svg

OMG that seemed a joke. Consider yourself re-welcomed. lol, sorry for the wrong message, I was trying to do something with twinkle and things got messed up. Regards Eduemoni?talk? 19:41, 25 February 2013 (UTC) ps.: The plate of cookies must remain here, I hope you like it.

Thanks. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 04:40, 27 February 2013 (UTC)


Just to let you know, I've updated Template:SCOTUSKey to use the match function from Module:String rather than Module:Template:SCOTUSKey. Would you mind if I delete Module:Template:SCOTUSKey now that it's not used anymore? -- WOSlinker (talk) 13:55, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Sure, feel free to delete the module if it's no longer used/needed. Thanks for all your work on these templates. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 04:43, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Article Feedback Tool (Since discussion has been closed)

Hi there,

since the discussion has been closed, I have some ideas about modification and adaption of the tool. However, not in the en wikipedia, but in the bg one. It will be a good test bed for the new modification because of the relatively small community, and thus relatively controllable environment and results.

Before, I state the ideas however, are you the right person to be asked for and who else can support me to introduce the modificated tool in the bg project?

Best regards, --Pesen S Trompet (talk) 09:27, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Pesen. You probably want to contact Oliver Keyes or Fabrice Florin directly about this. They're the ones actively working on the article feedback tool. --MZMcBride (talk) 08:27, 1 March 2013 (UTC)


I'm guessing you're already aware, but just in case, I noticed it was blocked. (something about messages going to the wrong people?). Since your name is on the user page, I thought I'd drop you a note about it. Cheers. -- Ched :  ?  03:11, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I took the liberty to unblock your bot. --Guerillero | My Talk 07:48, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Related. Legoktm (talk) 08:05, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the note, Ched. I keep a pretty close eye on the bot, so I'd seen the block and unblock, but a talk page note is always nice (for me and others) and greatly appreciated. The whole situation is a bit unfortunate, of course, but no big deal. I was trying to think of a way to prevent this from happening in the future, but there weren't any elegant answers that sprung to mind. Thanks for the unblock, Guerillero. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 08:15, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Invitation to a discussion: resource and legislative data

Hi MZMcBride, since you are interested in meetups in DC, I'd like to invite you to attend the Cato Institute's "Wikipedia and Legislative Data" events on March 14. (There's also an all day workshop on March 15; let me know if you are interested, we may be able to add more people.)

There will be an introduction to resource and open edit-a-thon in the afternoon, and a Sunshine Week Reception in the evening. I hope you can make it!

Hope to see you there! -Pete (talk) 19:20, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Hmmmmm. I think Thursday should work for me. --MZMcBride (talk) 09:26, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
Good, I look forward to meeting you! I gather from the link here you have thoughts about my work more generally. I'm always happy to discuss, but might not be able to dive deep into that at the Cato event. Feel free to send comments/questions/etc. to my talk page, email, etc. -Pete (talk) 07:12, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Please investigate broken report. Resource: Database reports/Long stubs is a weekly report that hasn't worked since late January. Please fix. Dawynn (talk) 22:55, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

I poked at this a bit this evening. It's a fairly straightforward query, though it's using "ORDER BY", which is requiring it to do a full table scan. And as the categorylinks table is growing progressively larger with more and more categories on more and more pages, any full scan is becoming more expensive. I tried removing the "ORDER BY", but even just trying to get the first 500 results with page_len > 14000 timed out (the query killer nailed it). I've noted the issue here. I'm not sure off-hand what a proper solution to this is.
The code is on GitHub: <> (look for ""). Please submit a pull request if you can fix the issue. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 09:34, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

I need Edwards bot for a work

Can you make Edwards bot send a letter to the rollbackers on behalf of me?--Pratyya (Hello!) 08:09, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi. You probably want to read User:EdwardsBot. --MZMcBride (talk) 08:37, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
Fine. Can you accept my request?--Pratyya (Hello!) 09:11, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi. You probably want to read User:EdwardsBot. --MZMcBride (talk) 09:39, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

DC meetup & dinner on Saturday, March 9!

Please join Wikimedia DC for a social meetup and dinner at Guapo's at Tenleytown-AU on Saturday, March 9 at 5 PM All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please see Resource: Meetup/DC 35. Hope to see you there! Kirill [talk] 13:58, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Hrm. We really need to get a social calendar going. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:35, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
It's high time somebody liberated from Portland! (It's been a great thing for the tech community there, it's open source, and it's written by friends.) -Pete (talk) 01:35, 6 March 2013 (UTC)


Hello :-) I'm trying to login with your toolserver/watcher (I'm in this list): using Chrome, I log in but if I try to use the watcher, I'm not logged in; using Firefox, I receive the message "Sorry, you're not on the access list". Can you help me Thank you very much :-) --Delfort (talk) 08:41, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

The watcher tool is mostly deprecated. I'm not sure what issue you're encountering. It sounds like the tool is getting bad info from the Toolserver's replicated database (metawiki_p).
That said, the number of page watchers is now available from the info action. Example. Will that work? --MZMcBride (talk) 00:34, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your answer; BTW from the info action I read "fewer than 30 watchers" ([2]), so same problem :) --Delfort (talk) 13:51, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Mad hacker skillz

hacked my ip address and my email. i watched you. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:01, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

You go girl. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:30, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard

I'm going to give you one warning about this, MZMcbride: outing other users via link is not acceptable from you any more than it is from anyone else. If you're looking for amusement tonight, look elsewhere. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 00:25, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, not sure what you're referring to. Can you clarify? --MZMcBride (talk) 00:29, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Given that you've only made one edit to the page in question recently, I'm surprised you're unable to locate it, but if it helps you, your edit of 00:21:34 6 March is the one in question. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 00:35, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Also fyi, I've raised this matter for discussion among the oversight team; you may be hearing more later on if that discussion comes up with anything else you need to know. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 00:56, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
I can't wait. I wonder, though, does a hyperlink to constitute a violation of WP:OUTING? As the home page's contents are dynamic (as opposed to static), I suppose the answer could change over time. I also wonder why it's possible for users to add links to such a bad site, if it's truly against policy. Hmmmm. --MZMcBride (talk) 01:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Fluffer, I'd like to know that as well. Drmies (talk) 05:33, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

What on Earth are you doing blocked, you silly sausage? --Closedmouth (talk) 04:39, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

I have no idea! I'm kind of appalled that David didn't even have the courtesy to leave a note on my talk page or e-mail me. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:40, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Quite ridiculous if you ask me.  -- Stat?s (talk, contribs) 04:56, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
  • FacepalmFacepalm ... sigh ... geesh, leave you kids alone for one second. I think you just have an innate natural ability to just piss people off MZM. What the hell are we supposed to do with you? You know the routine .. hands against the wall - spread em. -- Ched :  ?  05:02, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Surely "innate natural ability" is a pleonasm. ;-) Also, you're going to need to buy me dinner first, at a minimum! --MZMcBride (talk) 05:04, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
I had no doubt that you'd pick up on the redundancy. Hey, if I can ever get back to <redacted for fear of outing>, then without a doubt I'd be honored to buy you dinner. (damn I wanna see the Air Space Museum one more time). You have one of the sharpest, keenest minds I've ever seen - can't you push the envelope without going over that line? I'm not stupid, but I would "kill" to have that grey-matter that you do. Hell, you could give the Steve Jobs legacy a run for its money. (Gates is great, but sorry - con-man and manipulator). The future ahead of you is something I can't even fathom. Keep kickin it "gangnam style" buddy. -- Ched :  ?  05:39, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

{{unblock reviewed|The blocking admin refuses to provide a rationale for the block (notified here) or answer questions about what actually constitutes a violation of the outing policy (as raised here). I don't see how this block is sustainable. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:43, 7 March 2013 (UTC)|decline=The blocking administrator has provided an (additional) explanation below, but I agree with him that the reason for your block (whether you agree with it or not) was already quite clear previously. Because this unblock request does not contain any argument relating to the block's validity other than to demand a rationale for it, it is declined (see WP:GAB).  Sandstein  17:35, 7 March 2013 (UTC)}}

This is still an oversighter block, is it not? Then it falls under the same policy rules that Cla did, meaning a random admin is not allowed to just unblock you. You already know the steps you need to take and an unblock request is not it. You're just going to get some unrelated, unknowing admin in trouble. SilverserenC 05:12, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, not sure what you're referring to. Why do you believe this is an oversighter block? The Cla68 analogy doesn't seem to match reality. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:17, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
If you're blocked for violating the outing policy and your edits were oversighted, which they were, then that's an oversighter block and you can't just be simply unblocked. You have to contact Arbcom. SilverserenC 05:21, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
What you're saying doesn't seem to be documented anywhere. There's a very new section at Resource: Blocking policy#Oversight blocks, but even that doesn't seem to match the specifics here. In any case, I guess a passing admin can decide whether or not to unblock. Given David's refusal to discuss the matter (or the surrounding underlying issues), I don't think the block is sustainable. But perhaps you're correct that no admin will be willing to unblock before the block naturally expires. We'll see! --MZMcBride (talk) 05:28, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Before that section was added, even the previous version of the policy stated, "Administrators reviewing a block should consider that some historical context may not be immediately obvious. Cases involving sockpuppets, harassment, or privacy concerns are particularly difficult to judge. At times such issues have led to contentious unblocks. Where an uninformed unblock may be problematic, the blocking administrator may also wish to note as part of the block notice that there are specific circumstances, and that a reviewing administrator should not unblock without discussing the case with the blocking admin (or possibly ArbCom) to fully understand the matter." Maybe that isn't as explicit as you'd like, but any administrator should take that into account, along with the new section already linked by MZMcBride, before attempting an unblock. SilverserenC 05:41, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
I would think the talk page discussion would be more relevant. As it is, you seem to be blowing smoke. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 05:43, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
  • FYI. Honestly, you're pretty lucky that three days was all that David decided to go for; he could have easily justified longer/indef. NW (Talk) 07:41, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
    • That's crazy-talk. I was actually talking to someone this evening about this and I said that David was smart to pick three days (a trick he likely learned from Arbitrator training). If he'd gone with a longer period or made it indefinite, I think we can say with a high degree of certainty that it would've already been lifted.

      It seems that linking to is fine and linking to (and other similar posts) is fine, but one particular post can't be linked to. The distinction being made? Beyond me. --MZMcBride (talk) 08:00, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

  • MZM, you know exactly why you are blocked--because you continually posted links that outed editors, despite being told clearly to stop. I'm sure you have disagreements with the outing guidelines, or how they're implemented, whatever--I certainly don't agree with some of the applicable rules to how Wiki-lives connect and are influenced by actions on other parts of the internet, and how we should approach them. Disagreeing with those guidelines, and starting a discussion about them, would be the sensible thing to do. Repeatedly posting a bad link (and you can certainly tell the difference between good and bad links) is the equivalent of a child repeating curse words to get attention. You got exactly what you expected out of the equation, so let's cut the nonsense. You're more intelligent than that, and everyone on this site shouldn't have to deal with trolling from someone who can be and usually is productive and conscientious. If you want to talk about this further, my email is always open and I'll be in DC for the meetup this weekend. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 13:31, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Hmmm. The arbitrariness of what is and isn't allowed (e.g., I suppose <> is acceptable) combined with the fact you've suppressed any evidence of alleged wrongdoing makes all of this a bit dystopian. --MZMcBride (talk) 18:01, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

{{unblock reviewed|I apparently have to explicitly say that the block rationale is faulty. There, I said it. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:13, 7 March 2013 (UTC)|decline=I am declining your unblock request because it does not address the reason for your block, or because it is inadequate for other reasons. To be unblocked, you must convince the reviewing administrator(s) that

  • the block is not necessary to prevent damage or disruption to Wikipedia, or
  • the block is no longer necessary because you
    1. understand what you have been blocked for,
    2. will not continue to cause damage or disruption, and
    3. will make useful contributions instead.

Please read the guide to appealing blocks for more information.
An admin needs at least to see the edits made that are questionable, at the very least before considering an unblock - since we can't see them (as they have all been oversighted), you will have to use contact ArbCom.  Ronhjones  (Talk) 00:21, 8 March 2013 (UTC)}}

Thanks for that, err, well thought-out reply, Ron. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:02, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
Is there anyone connected to this saga who doesn't have a string of oversighted edits in their contrib list? It all feels a bit Orwellian. Kevin (talk) 03:45, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
There's certainly some cringe-worthy stupidity around here lately. Fluffed & Fuched. Perhaps a future bot name. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:57, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

These Oversight blocks are getting out of hand!. ThePhoenixReborn (talk) 00:06, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Kitten (06) by Ron.jpg

WikiConjugal visit. <3

Fran Rogers (talk) 05:24, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

<3 --MZMcBride (talk) 05:25, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost

Your recent block is mentioned in the current edition of the Signpost. I have made a comment regarding your block and contrasting it with Cla68's block. Let me know if I have misstated anything and I will correct it. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 23:50, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for the heads-up. I'd already heard about the mention in The Signpost, but I hadn't seen your comment.

I've mostly said my piece in the section above. I think the current policy of allowing most Wikipediocracy links, but banning two(?) is a bit silly. It seems there's no admin willing to unblock me, though, so... shrug. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:58, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Your bot at

Dear MZMcBride,

please request bot flag for da:Bruger:EdwardsBot at Resource: Anmodning om botstatus. Regards, Christian Giersing (talk) 19:53, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Blah, done. But I'd really like to not have to maintain this bot (or at least not have to make requests on each individual project). This is a waste of my time. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:25, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
As I have written on Resource: Anmodning om botstatus#EdwardsBot a botflag would remove the yellow box in the top of the page telling about a new message. Christian Giersing wrote about it on da:Wikipedia-diskussion:Anmodning om botassistance four minutes before requesting you to request a botflag so there is no community consensus (yet) about the necessity of having a botflag.
- Sarrus (ct) 20:46, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
Replied here. As far as I'm aware, EdwardsBot will always trigger a new messages notification, as it's not marking its edits as both bot and minor. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:48, 8 March 2013 (UTC)


I've mentioned you here. No need to comment if you don't want to.--v/r - TP 13:04, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:08, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


<sigh>, I guess you gotta be you :) -- Ched :  ?  17:59, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

come on now Stop please? -- Ched :  ?  18:02, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
You should un-watchlist that page. ;-) --MZMcBride (talk) 19:33, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


If you do that again, I will indef you. AGK [o] 18:13, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't recommend it. --MZMcBride (talk) 18:14, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
  • I've indefinitely blocked your account. There are no two ways about it: linking to that website is outing. AGK [o] 18:15, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Then why is it not on the blacklist? Werieth (talk) 18:20, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Like that would mean anything. Newyorkbrad told everyone where the offending blog post was without getting in trouble, the Signpost did that many times and provided direct quotes from the Examiner article by Greg Kohs, and several Arbitrators and oversighters commented in the section above where MZM linked to WO over and over. Seriously, AGK, we are beginning to end the drama and now you are just creating more of it. ArbCom's conduct in this matter has been completely incoherent and you are just making it more obvious.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 19:20, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
  • To supplement my earlier message with an FYI, MZMcBride: if you agree not to link to that site's homepage again (while it prominently displays personal information about another user), I'll unblock you. Your TP is on my watchlist. AGK [o] 19:19, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Hmm. This seems like a textbook case of attempted coercion.

      Let's take a look here. The relevant edit hasn't been oversighted or suppressed. You've indefinitely blocked a long-time user without providing a block summary. And you seem to be actively ignoring literally hundreds of links to <>. --MZMcBride (talk) 19:24, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

  • It's even worse when you consider that searching for "Wikipediocracy" gets a link to the page as the top result. So basically any mention of Wikipediocracy, anywhere, link or not, would have the same effect.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 19:31, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
  • AGK is out of control. Where do we take this? -- Hex (??!?) 19:36, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure I'd put it that way, but this block doesn't seem sustainable. --MZMcBride (talk) 19:38, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Hex, please don't be so dramatic. AGK [o] 19:45, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Really, AGK? Really? See that section down below called "AGK's actions"? You've lost the plot. -- Hex (??!?) 22:39, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
AGK - You're free to add the site to the spam blacklist to prevent people from adding the site to WP. You could even set up an abuse filter. Whatever. But this block is uncalled for and I'm inclined to unblock. If the only issue is the OMGBADSITE, do something about the site? Rjd0060 (talk) 19:40, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict × 3) The average editor won't know or care who the outed editor is, so there would be no value in purging the website from every page on Wikipedia. However, on noticeboard discussions (and things like the feedback page for last week's Signpost article), only our most active editors are paying attention. It is them who are likely to know the outed editor, because he is one of them--a very active editor. That they are likely to know the outed editor means the outing is all the more damaging, which is the only reason why links to the page that outs him are, in turn, all the more damaging. There's a huge difference between people who know what WO is being able to find links to it across the project, and people who don't know what it is being given a handy link and an explanation of the context by you. I'm astonished you seem to think it's okay to essentially paint "[outed editor]'s identity that way →" in huge print at the top of one of the community's busiest noticeboards. AGK [o] 19:41, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
I don't. But if we only could control the entire internet.... But if that's all you're trying to prevent here, then there are other ways to do it. Blocking, in this case, was a very, very poor call - in my opinion. Rjd0060 (talk) 19:43, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
The point isn't that the site exists. It's always existed. It's that MZ is quite effectively advertising the homepage of that site across the community's noticeboards. That homepage currently contains precisely the same kind of outing that's already earned another otherwise-good contributor an indefinite block. He's also linking to the Special:LinkSearch feed for the page, which is just as damaging and can't be blocked by other means. That's why he was blocked. AGK [o] 19:45, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Except, just saying "Wikipediocracy" is as good as giving someone a link to the site as I explained above. Is Wikipediocracy going to become by decree "the site that shall not be named"? That would just be silly.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 19:47, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Above you write, "if you agree not to link to that site's homepage again (while it prominently displays personal information about another user), I'll unblock you." What about <>? Or <>? You don't seem to have a coherent policy in place, but you seem to be willing to indefinitely block long-time users for violating it. :-/ --MZMcBride (talk) 19:49, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Both of those links mention the outed editor, and are explicitly not okay. I think you know that was always the rule of thumb, and that publicising those links is really not okay. AGK [o] 19:54, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Hmm. So you seem to be declaring all links to <> as unacceptable, but without any community support for doing so and without utilizing any technical means (other than user blocks) to prevent links from being added here (e.g., the spam blacklist or the abuse filter). You also seem to be a participant in Wikipediocracy's forum (there's a broken link from User talk:AGK/Archive/73 to <>). A site so vile that you're willing to indefinitely block a user for simply linking to it, but you have no issue participating directly on that site?

I have to say, I can't really see any part of this block that puts you in a favorable light, AGK. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:02, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Nice non sequitur, but many sound contributors are (or have been) contributors to that website--which isn't the point. Rather, the point is that the site has recently taken to circulating "outing" op-eds on their homepage, and almost as recently you've taken to pushing as many editors as possible towards the website--which is not on. When you know that site has one of those pieces up, and you go out of your way to link to it as many times (and in as many different ways as possible), you can't really be surprised when somebody revokes your editing rights. AGK [o] 20:09, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
What about all the people saying, "Wikipediocracy! Wikipediocracy! Wikipediocracy!", including one of your fellow Arbs? That's fine because they didn't provide a link?--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 20:11, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, AGK, but we really can't have it both ways. Either it's blacklisted and linking disabled, or it's not. Instead of one link, we now have multiple links (above) and more eyes on them. You also have more editors (including yourself) posting the name of the site in plaintext, which is just as good as a link in the eyes of the google machine. I agree that there needs to be a discussion about whether to blacklist this site's links, if and when, but this isn't how we have that discussion. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 20:13, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

MZMcBride, I will give you two options. Quit posting links that have the outing information on the link that you have, or I will remove your talk page access. SirFozzie (talk) 20:16, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Just a FYI, I've removed the three links to where the OUTING information that's currently at WO. SirFozzie (talk) 20:23, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Why are you injecting even more drama into this situation, Fozzie?--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 20:25, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
...Why are you manufacturing drama where there should be none? AGK [o] 20:32, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
You are the ones doing that actually. Starting with the block of Cla68 it has been just a continuous line of drama-inducing actions by Arbs, admins, and activist editors, who are badly missing the purpose of the policies on harassment. WP:OUTING exists to protect privacy, i.e. things that people make a credible effort to keep private, not so that editors can fancy themselves super-heroes with secret identities even when they use terrible disguises.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 20:43, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Then work to change the policy. Just because you don't agree with how the policy stands doesn't mean it's a good idea to violate it. SirFozzie (talk) 20:46, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Honestly, I don't want drama. But folks seem to want drama no matter what. Either we take down the links, per OUTING,etcetera, and there's drama, or we violate our own rules, and there's drama as people demand we enforce our rules. I don't want MzMcBride to remain blocked... but that's his choice, not mine. As I said over there, WO has a lot of value as a criticism site, but they went too far with the outing post, and until such time as that outing information is no longer readily available (such as it was on every link that I've redacted from MzMcbride's posting), then it is sadly necessary. And before you say "Then why don't you put it on the meta-wiki spamlist?" I've made a request to do just that. I hope WO do the right thing, take down the outing article, and replace it with one that points out the flaws that that user has, without crossing the line, but I can't do that for them. SirFozzie (talk) 20:34, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
The links have been restored (as has my talk page access). It's been a wild ride! --MZMcBride (talk) 07:19, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
This thread shouldn't make it into a talk page archive without the keyword "ham-fisted" (or "ham-handed"), a description of SirFozzie's link removals here. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 02:49, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
  • "Either it's blacklisted and linking disabled, or it's not." Ding ding, we have a winner!  -- Stat?s (talk, contribs) 21:42, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

AGK's actions

I have to run to dinner myself shortly, but let me just get this straight. Today, AGK:

  1. has indefinitely blocked a long-time user without providing a block summary;
  2. has added to the spam blacklist with a highly misleading edit summary;
  3. did not log his addition to the spam blacklist, as directed on both MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist and MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist in large, red, bold font; and
  4. added the blacklist entry in direct defiance of consensus from an explicit discussion about this particular site.

Hmmmm. AGK is really having a gold star day, eh? --MZMcBride (talk) 22:05, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Resource: Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. (I took the liberty of copying your list to the post. Have a good dinner.) -- Hex (??!?) 23:16, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
It should be noted that AGK removed the blacklist entries shortly after this post was made. Thank you, AGK! --MZMcBride (talk) 00:23, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
From what I now understand, AGK concurrently attempted to ban every mention of the word "Wikipediocracy" on the English resource (cf. Special:AbuseFilter/history/537/diff/prev/10784). Incredible. Prior to the AbuseFilter being enabled here, I wrote about the possibility of this kind of thing happening in the future. A tool designed for vandalism and abuse being used for censorship and Arbitration enforcement (among other things). Look how far we've come.... --MZMcBride (talk) 04:08, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Thankfully, someone saw fit to delete AGK's kneejerk change. Let's just forget whether it's those nasty sites WR or wikipediocracy, this is like trying to crack a walnut with a ball and chain. Never mind what collateral damage such action does to the project. -- Ohconfucius ping / poke 04:38, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

If you agree not to link to again he will unblock you.

The polandball is now in your corner. (talk) 23:10, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Hah. Cute. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:23, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Moving forward

{{unblock reviewed|1=Please unblock my account. AGK left no block log summary and has made it clear that this was a normal administrator block. This block is not sustainable. Thank you. --MZMcBride (talk) 3:13 pm, Today (UTC+0)|decline=Unfortunately MZMcBride, I see no valid reason in your unblock request why you should be unblocked. Whilst AGK made an unfortunate mistake in not leaving a block reason, he did give his reasons for doing so on your talk page. A future unblock request from yourself should concentrate on the substantive issues, namely a commitment not to link to wikipediocracy, or make any other attempt to out an editor. Should you make these two commitments, I will unblock you immediately. Ryan PostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 23:32, 13 March 2013 (UTC)}}

Hi Ryan.

Hmmm. I'm not sure what you mean by "not to link to wikipediocracy, or make any other attempt to out an editor." The community seems to have now twice-rejected blacklisting <> (here and here). It's used in a few hundred places. Am I really supposed to promise to never add a link to it again? Including the forum and other parts? That seems kind of insane.

As for outing editors, if the English resource thinks this link is so inappropriate, it tracks its usage and has implemented the ability to prevent linking to it (with blacklists and edit filters). However, the English resource community has decided that this link isn't problematic enough to warrant special designation.

Anyway, I appreciate you taking a look at this, Ryan. I really do. AGK seems to have overreacted here with an indefinite block, but I've got plenty of other things I could be spending my time on (both wiki-related and not). If no admin is willing to unblock me, that's the way it goes. I'll go find something else to do. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 23:50, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

P.S. And to answer your question, the relevant diff is here.

Thank you for your thoughtful responses. I do respect that the blacklisting of Wikipediocracy is a controversial issue and hasn't exactly been accepted by the community, but there is clearly an issue with the context that you linked to it in. I have to stand by my request that you made a commitment not to link to Wikipediocracy on the project at all in the future. Whilst it is clearly a hot issue at the minute, your involvement in the issue isn't conducive to a collaborative editing environment and is causing far more problems than it is solving. Make the commitment not to link, and you can get on with editing on the project right away. I would also suggest stepping away from this issue entirely. You do a lot of good work here, and there's surely more interesting things you could be getting on with! Ryan PostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 00:00, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Yeah... I don't think I'm willing to make that commitment. I try to make it a rule (in life) to not agree to anything (an explicit "yes") without being as confident as is reasonably possible that I can fulfill the agreement. For example, this is why I mostly don't respond to Facebook invites (or I'll respond "maybe" instead of "yes"). If I'm say I'm gonna do something, I do it.

In this case, I'm not willing to say I'll never again link to <>. I haven't participated there, but I certainly could in the future. If it continues to grow (particularly its wiki), one day it might have its own interwiki prefix, even. I'm fairly involved in Wikimedia projects (sometimes as a critic), so to try to elicit a commitment that these two sites won't ever overlap in my life again... well, no, I'm sorry, I just won't make that commitment. That's the way of the Web. Thanks again for looking into this for me. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:09, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

I understand your point. Would you be willing to make a 6 month commitment not to post links to the site? That's not too long and would give the community time to come to a consensus about whether or not the site should be linked to. To be honest with you, I think that's a fair compromise for us all. Ryan PostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 00:17, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
No, I'm sorry. I think it would set a terrible precedent for future situations of this kind and I think it could possibly have chilling effects on criticism of Wikipedia. I don't think either of these situations is acceptable. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:23, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Personally, I don't give a shit about a link to ... now, linking to potentially inappropriate pages/threads/whatever on that site is problematic. So, I don't see any need to restrict (other than for promotional reasons ... which is unlikely) linking to the main url. (?->BWilkins) 00:20, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Indeed, but given the problems that this has caused, any future links (at least the near future) to the site from MZMcBride is likely to cause unneeded drama, hence my offer terms. Ryan PostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 00:22, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Right, but Ryan, there's nothing illegal or contrary to policy with linking to wikipediocracy's main url ... yeah, it might have been a little WP:POINTy, but if we indef-blocked everyone for being pointy every so often we'd be a pretty empty place. As far as I can tell, MZ has never linked to a specific attack page (show me I'm wrong). (?->BWilkins) 00:28, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
The issue is essentially that the English resource doesn't control what content the domain serves. The main page (<>) and other pages (such as <>) are dynamic (i.e., their content is based on, for example, whatever posts were most recently made or whatever posts were tagged with a particular keyword), but any page on that domain is potentially problematic.

You could possibly envision a scenario in which certain URLs were changed (by a nefarious sysadmin) after being posted to this wiki to redirect to a nasty place (e.g., <> could be changed to redirect to a different post or to a different domain altogether). Or, even more nefariously, a sysadmin could take old links found on this site and only redirect to a nasty place based on being clicked by a user on the English resource (using an HTTP referer). It's trivial to redirect URLs; for example <> appears to be a JPEG image URL, but it redirects to a completely different site. All of this is as true of as it is of nearly any Web domain.

As I see it, the English resource community has repeatedly decided not to ban links to this site (as opposed to, say,, which is blacklisted locally), so indefinitely blocking users for linking to seems a bit crazy. Again, I think AGK simply overreacted. That said, there's an essay somewhere around here describing a "no admin willing to unblock" scenario. I can't remember exactly where, but it may apply here. We'll see. --MZMcBride (talk) 01:22, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm, I suppose Resource: Community ban is what I was thinking of. Hmmm. --MZMcBride (talk) 01:45, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
BWilkins: He linked to the site's front page, a couple of days after it ran a second story about the outed editor's identity (and a couple of days after he was blocked for the same thing). As if to prove he didn't do so accidentally, he then linked to the same URL with /tag/wikipedia appended; even if an unrelated story took over top spot on the homepage, that URL would still take somebody directly to the offending WO blog posts. Cf his recent contributions to this page (other sysops have redacted his comments, I believe). I'm not asking him to abstain from linking to any WO page. I'm simply asking him not to do so in such an abjectly disruptive manner. This whole drama has been of MZ's making, which is disappointing; he used to know which fights to pick and which to leave. AGK [o] 09:31, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

But why?

Re your deliberate linking which got you blocked, did you do so to tip shit on Wikipedia, to out someone, to make a point, a combination of those, or some other reason. There would be quite a few observers like me who are a bit puzzled by it all. Moriori (talk) 00:03, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi. I somewhat addressed this above when I wrote, "You don't seem to have a coherent policy in place, but you seem to be willing to indefinitely block long-time users for violating it." To me, AGK's actions today are a classic example of cowboy adminship. Shoot first, ask questions later. (Though in his mind, threatening to indefinitely block someone is equivalent to asking him or her to not do something.) Hmmm. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:18, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
Blasphemy! You have violated our sacred edicts. Henceforth your only recourse is to commit seppuku so you may restore honor to our endeavor.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 01:20, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
Or commit sudoku whichever is easier. Collect (talk) 01:22, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
How about simply committing to not being pointy in the future so that one of us can actually unblock you. I have no horse in this whole website, so let's just stop worrying about principle and worry about getting productive editors back doing what they should be doing, which does not include dramah. (?->BWilkins) 23:35, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
I agree with everything Bwilkins just said. --- Isarra ? 03:55, 14 March 2013 (UTC)


Hopefully with a good nights sleep, some hindsight and a bit of reflection you and AGK can come to some sort of meeting of the minds at the dawn of a new day. Ya can't change anything from the outside. If that can be worked out, and you'd like to collaborate on some sort of RfC regarding the matter (WP:BADSITES 2.0 or whatever), I'd be honored to work with you. -- Ched :  ?  08:14, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

I have no interest. --MZMcBride (talk) 15:09, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
He would prefer not to. --Closedmouth (talk) 15:46, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
I would like to say that I love literary allusions and closedmouth in general. Killiondude (talk) 17:37, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

A note

MZMcBride, I dropped a note at NE Ent's page the other day. I would certainly extend the same offer to you and any other editor who genuinely sees a way forward for improvement. Unfortunately, everything kicking off over the past few days has come at a poor time, as I decided to try for a featured article for the first time and this whole saga has been more than a ltitle distracting. But hey, that's what I signed up for when I joined ArbCom.

Now, specifically on this case, we've got two conflicting issues. Firstly, the site that is linking a person to a username very clearly on its front page. This is considered WP:DOXing or WP:OUTING or whatever it's called today. It's off-wiki, and therefore generally considered out of jurisdiction. The community rejected BADSITES a while ago, so discussing the site or linking to it is not against policy. I know that you understand these points. We also expect people to act with a little discretion, to use common sense when posting - in other words, not to create "drama" and distract everyone from what they should be doing. Your actions were designed to cause a reaction. Call it what you like, Trolling, WP:POINTy behaviour, Disruptive editing - I don't care, you knew that making that edit would likely end up with us in this mess.

I'd like to see you unblocked and I'm happy to discuss it. The arbitration committee isn't a homogenous group, so feel free to look into my actions, my comments and my !votes in this recent matter. As Ched stipulates above, proper discussion could lead to sorting everything out, and you need to be on the inside to join in that discussion. If, after a good night's sleep, you fancy climbing down off this parapet, I'm watching the page and I'm willing to discuss things with you. I'm also willing to receive emails from you if you'd prefer to discuss that way. Can we please try and move forward without all the shouting and squabbling? WormTT(talk) 11:13, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi. You seem like a pretty good guy and I appreciate the note, but I'm rather busy and I have no intention of adding a protracted discussion about these idiotic pseudo-policies to my agenda. --MZMcBride (talk) 15:11, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
No problems, you know where I am if you change your mind. WormTT(talk) 15:12, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Talk page access revoked

Given that you've continued to post links to the same website that you were blocked for, I've revoked your talk page access. I make no comment on the original block, but your conduct is disappointing given our previous constructive dialogue. Once again, I maintain that I will unblock you with reassurances (which will now have to be via email) that you will not post links to the site. I must note however that should you post a link after being unblocked, any future block will likely be for a considerable length of time. Ryan PostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 02:48, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

And restored.

Absolutely insane. You re-blocked me while overlooking that the exact same links already appear on this talk page in other sections. You also overlooked that several admins and oversighters have already declined to delete these revisions. And to make matters even worse, you didn't even properly suppress the revisions. Good grief, man. Please undo your revision deletions in the morning. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:45, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

While I appreciate that we are reviving the dead in handling this situation, can I please please remind those reanimated beings that while we really really want them back on Wikipedia, wading into complex controversial situations might be better left to more recently active admins. MBisanz talk 03:57, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

  • Seems to be a little too much heat and smoke going on here. I fail to see what the problem is with mentioning WR or Wikipediocracy. It didn't seem that he was repeating the 'outing' episode with specific links thereto. I can understand MZM's anger and frustration at apparently having been shat upon from a great height, but perhaps he may be allowed to cool it within the confines of his own talk page. -- Ohconfucius ping / poke 04:01, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
    • I'd say I'm much closer to baffled, bemused, or boggled than I am to angry or frustrated. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:03, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Personally - I am MOTHER FUCKING PISSED OFF TO THE MAX -- Ched :  ?  05:55, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Sigh. I guess your hasty departure is related to this. I hope you'll return when you're ready. I'll be here waiting. :-) Take care. --MZMcBride (talk) 06:10, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
There have been times I didn't understand the "why" ... but I never for a single second doubted that you had wp:clue. -- Ched :  ?  10:15, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

A suggestion

This may be seen as seriously naiive, and if you think it so please tell me. MZMcBride is, as we know, by far the biggest contributor here in terms of admin actions. His total, in fact, approaches the combined total of all other admins past and present. I feel that this degree of commitment deserves some degree of forbearance, within the rules, here. I propose that he be unblocked, if he gives the community a categorical assurance that whatever his personal opinion of the website to which he linked, he will in no circumstance link there again. --Anthony Bradbury"talk" 17:17, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Anthony.

I have more than a few edits as well. ;-) But the numbers are probably less meaningful (particularly in a vacuum) in the context of automated and semi-automated scripts. Outside of this vacuum, I'm a pretty vested contributor (and at times, a VestedContributor), so I can certainly agree that an indefinite block here is more unusual, particularly for edits that don't seem to be in violation of any policy.

Ryan P. offered this same linking deal above. I rejected it, as I felt it would set a bad precedent and possibly have chilling effects on criticism of Wikipedia.

There's an ongoing discussion here: Resource: Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/ExternalSites#See no reason to continue the block that I'm keeping an eye on. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:37, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) In point of fact (and not wishing to take sides here, nor to cast doubt on MZ's integrity), MZMcBride is not an admin, and hasn't been since 19 January 2010. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:38, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Right. Anthony was saying in terms of admin actions. I don't think he meant to suggest that I'm an admin currently. This actually came up recently in the context of a redirect I asked to have undeleted (discussion here). Anthony knows I'm not an admin, he was just referring to the logged action stats. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:45, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Well, good for you for not taking a demeaning deal that preserves the concept that one can be blocked or banned merely for linking to a heretical site, but then gives you limited forgiveness for your past sins along those lines simply because of your past position of power. *Dan T.* (talk) 18:36, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Past position of power? If I really wanted to, I could unblock myself. You don't play this game as long as I have without having a plan B (or C or D or...). But I'm not supposed to do that and it wouldn't really be fair. --MZMcBride (talk) 18:38, 14 March 2013 (UTC)


We seem to have reached an impasse, with me requiring that you not out other editors and you refusing to not do so. One of us has to budge. I consider the protracted drama that has emerged over this block, and the wider issue of linking to attack sites, to be a greater disturbance to the project than what you were doing before I blocked you (as outrageously disruptive and disrespectful as that was). It will therefore be me who budges. The drama that has emerged over this has essentially revoked my ability as an administrator to enforce our policies to any meaningful degree, so at this point I can only implore--rather than require--you to not draw attention to pages that outs another editor in such a deliberately obvious manner. Whether you choose to continue to do so is your choice (and you can certainly now make the argument, though I don't think you could before I blocked you, that everybody else is basically doing it too). Regards, AGK [o] 22:52, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

To clarify, what I find "outrageously disruptive and disrespectful" is what you were doing before I blocked you (although that reminds me that I didn't leave a block log summary, which was also disrespectful--sorry for not doing that). AGK [o] 22:54, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the unblock. :-) It's all bridge under the water now, as far as I'm concerned.
That said, I had a few thoughts and here is as good a place as any to post them, I suppose. I think regentspark pretty much nailed it in this post. Generally, I think you would've had a much stronger argument if you'd gotten into a revert war (perhaps with another user) and gotten me to violate a bright line rule like 3RR. That is, if you can find two editors willing to make three reverts between them, they'd trump a single other editor who's trying to make a particular edit. 3RR has definable rules and a clear enforcement procedure, unlike some other policies or pseudo-policies around here.
I also think you probably could've cited the global "don't be a dick" policy, perhaps, as a justification for a block. It's an old (wiki) principle. Perhaps lessons for the future. ;-) A blank block summary is both a blessing and a burden, I suppose.
You advocated for a "revert, block, ignore" (RBI) approach, which would typically work, except the "B" part (blocking) doesn't work with vested contributors. It works with throwaway accounts and single-purpose accounts and others. It doesn't work with long-time editors and never has. Now... revert, ignore, and block if an editor violates 3RR... well, we even have administrators who are occasionally blocked without any drama for violations of that.
If a passing admin could restore the revisions to my talk page that Ryan P. deleted, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, I can file a formal undeletion request in a few days when the dust settles.
Thanks again for the unblock. Hopefully we can all move forward now. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:15, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the revision visibility restorations, Spartaz. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 07:07, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Now, what about User:Cla68, still a loose end in this whole business? *Dan T.* (talk) 12:34, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
This isn't the page to discuss Cla68, but when last I checked Cla had told us he did not wish to be unblocked. I understand his edits to WO illuminate his motives in not wishing to have his block lifted. AGK [o] 13:35, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Quite frankly, Cla can stay blocked given his role in this. To be honest, I couldn't care less if we got assurances that it won't happen again. The severity of his misconduct on this matter means that he needs a long block to ensure that he realises that he can't do things like that again.
Oh, and welcome back MZMcBride :-) I'm pleased to see that things have been resolved and you're back. Ryan PostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 13:47, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
I hadn't realized Cla68 wished to remain blocked. I'd made a note to investigate his indefinite block. Okay.
Thanks, Ryan. It's good to be back. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 14:04, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
The statement of his that I'm aware of says "I won't be asking ArbCom if my block can be lifted until the situation with MZMcbride's block is resolved", so that would imply that now that the latter situation does seem to have been resolved, it would now be time to reopen the former one. *Dan T.* (talk) 14:11, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


Note the essay I referred you to and this edit: [3]. Cheers. Collect (talk) 02:21, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Spartaz wisely reverted in this edit.
I tightened up some of the language in your essay in this edit. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 07:31, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Many thanks! Collect (talk) 11:38, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Approved! The significance between "one" and "individual" is that one may be one, or one may be another one, at another time, unless they are both observant and doubtless "an individual", even during sleeping hours, up to say 24/7/364. If so, then indeed they must enact the power that is to them of course that rare "wholeness".— CpiralCpiral 22:40, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Things to do

Now that you're unblocked, I understand there are some things you needed to do? :) Legoktm (talk) 03:08, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


Nice to see you in the flesh, even if only for a little bit. Cheers, tedder (talk) 03:18, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes, very nice to see you as well. :-) I may be able to sneak over on Friday toward the end of the day. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:20, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
I think I'll unfollow your page. It's like being on ANI :) Hope to see you here. tedder (talk) 14:13, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Hah, perhaps I'll unfollow my page as well. ;-) It's not usually so bad, I swear! --MZMcBride (talk) 14:17, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Don't let him kid ya tedder - people flock from all over the globe just to see what he's gonna say next. :P (jk w/ya MZM) -- Ched :  ?  19:38, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Restricted-use media list

An RfC that may interest you has been opened at MediaWiki talk:Bad image list#Restricted-use media list, so please come and include your opinion. – PAINE ELLSWORTH CLIMAX! 10:01, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up. I will try to poke some people about getting gerrit:53190 approved. --MZMcBride (talk) 19:25, 19 March 2013 (UTC) Resource: Database reports/Meta-Wiki rights changes

Hi. Could BernsteinBot format the timestamps so that they appear in a more legible format? Thanks. It Is Me Here t / c 17:04, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi. Sure, sounds simple enough to adjust. What format would you prefer? --MZMcBride (talk) 19:25, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Well, anything more legible than a long string of numbers really, hehe. If it helps, for me personally, contribs, logs etc. read e.g. "15:24, 20 March 2013". It Is Me Here t / c 17:22, 20 March 2013 (UTC)


Hi MZ, I was having a conversation about WP:ADMINSTATS and a question came up that I thought might be he sort of thing you'd know the answer to. An oversighter and a former oversighter were involved in the conversation, and both were wondering what an "event suppression" was for the purposes of that page. I always assumed it was the suppression (or perhaps an "oversight", using the old-fashioned method) of an edit or log entry, but both believed they ad made far more actions than that page reports. Would you be able to satisfy my natural curiosity? Thanks, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:03, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

I believe it's suppression/deletion and/or block with suppression of username (the latter of which then cascades into logs). On looking at my own numbers on that page, it is far too low for it to represent edit suppressions, and probably too high for direct suppression of log entries, but would be about right for either or both of delete/suppress or block with suppression. Risker (talk) 20:11, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi. I think WP:ADMINSTATS uses the same logic as WP:LOGACTIONS. The latter's configuration is available here: Resource: Database reports/Users by log action/Configuration. From that page: {'name': 'Event suppressions', 'short_name': 'ES', 'type': 'suppress', 'action': 'event'}.

This refers to mw:Manual:Logging table, where log_type = 'suppress' and log_action = 'event'. I have no idea what this means. I did at some point, presumably. I think it's log suppression (for example, suppressing part of a deletion log entry). I pasted info about the ten most recent event suppressions below, for reference. Hope that helps. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:08, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

mysql> select * from logging where log_type = 'suppress' and log_action = 'event' order by log_timestamp desc limit 10;
| log_id   | log_type | log_action | log_timestamp  | log_user | log_namespace | log_deleted | log_user_text    | log_title | log_comment | log_params | log_page |
| 47856187 | suppress | event      | 20130311180709 |     5190 |            -1 |           0 | Fred Bauder      |           |             |            |        0 |
| 47838389 | suppress | event      | 20130310174302 |   353669 |            -1 |           0 | Avraham          |           |             |            |        0 |
| 47758725 | suppress | event      | 20130306050028 |  3315180 |            -1 |           0 | Someguy1221      |           |             |            |        0 |
| 47758711 | suppress | event      | 20130306045929 |  3315180 |            -1 |           0 | Someguy1221      |           |             |            |        0 |
| 47666360 | suppress | event      | 20130301003458 |    12013 |            -1 |           0 | Coren            |           |             |            |        0 |
| 47666354 | suppress | event      | 20130301003429 |    12013 |            -1 |           0 | Coren            |           |             |            |        0 |
| 47580758 | suppress | event      | 20130224104704 |  3315180 |            -1 |           0 | Someguy1221      |           |             |            |        0 |
| 47460161 | suppress | event      | 20130217195911 |     5190 |            -1 |           0 | Fred Bauder      |           |             |            |        0 |
| 47460121 | suppress | event      | 20130217195511 |     5190 |            -1 |           0 | Fred Bauder      |           |             |            |        0 |
| 47424322 | suppress | event      | 20130215184517 |   488996 |            -1 |           0 | Timotheus Canens |           |             |            |        0 |
10 rows in set (0.74 sec)
  • Okay, taken a look at a couple of them, and they are actions that suppress an entry on the Special:Log/* , where * can be a number of different actions (move, rename user, delete, etc.) Risker (talk) Resource: Database reports/Unused non-free files

Hi MZMcBride, I noticed that orphaned fair use images aren't getting tagged any more and it was pointed out to me that the bot tagging them is based on this report, which hasn't been updated in a few days, so I wanted to bring it to your attention. Thanks. --B (talk) 22:40, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi. I just ran the script manually and the report seems to have updated. Bizarre. I re-added myself to the list of users who receive e-mail when these reports fail, so perhaps future issues will surface to my inbox. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 23:04, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Thank you - I appreciate it. By the way, as a random side note, we used to have a special page that listed all orphaned images. (Now, it's capped at 1000 presumably because it absolutely kills the server to list all of them.) Is it possible/feasible to do that list as a report? Or, to build on that concept, could we have a few reports for orphaned images that meet certain criteria, for example (a) orphan images from users who have few or no other contributions (under the assumption that the images were uploaded solely for a deleted article), (b) small orphan images (a disproportionately large number of web-resolution images tend to be copyvios), or (c) orphaned images that have a URL other than a site from which we frequently get free images (.gov, .mil, flickr, etc) - the idea being that if there's a URL, it's highly likely to be a copyvio image. --B (talk) 23:51, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
If you want a list of all orphaned images, then you should ideally only have to look at Category:All orphaned non-free use resource files (unfree files) and Category:Wikipedia orphaned files (free files). The second category (with free files) is meant to be updated by User:ContinuityBot once in a while, but I don't know how often that bot updates the orphan tag. Resource: Database reports/Unused non-free files is strange again. Although the bot has updated the page every day, the list of files has been empty for three days. This is unusual: there are usually at least a few images there, for example because new users don't understand how to add files to articles, or because someone uploaded two copies by mistake. I suspect that something isn't working properly. --Stefan2 (talk) 16:02, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi MZMcBride, can you kick the script off manually again? There don't seem to be any new orphans showing up in the list. Thanks. --B (talk) 15:48, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi. I noticed this report wasn't updating over the weekend. I tried to run the database query manually, but it got killed quickly. The Toolserver has had transient (or intermittent) issues like this for years now. Sigh.
The report likely needs to be rewritten. I was looking at the underlying code (available here: Resource: Database reports/Unused non-free files/Configuration) and it seems like it wouldn't be too much trouble to rewrite the report. I'll do it this week unless you beat me to it. ;-) --MZMcBride (talk) 03:49, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. I'm a C#/C++/VB kind of guy - obviously, I can follow the code and the SQL statements, but I wouldn't have a clue what to do to rewrite it. :( --B (talk) 13:13, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Also, in case you haven't noticed, it seems that there are other file database reports which haven't been updated recently. --Stefan2 (talk) 13:43, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Sitting in a tree (or perhaps it's tree sitting...)

Original Barnstar.png The Original Barnstar
For refusing to cave in to bullies and for standing tall for principle with an eye to precedent in spite of threatened and real negative consequences. Where I come from they call that "courage" and I salute you for it. Carrite (talk) 03:16, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. You know this is two in the past year from you. If I get a third, I think we'll be considered married in some cultures. ;-) I'm not sure I ever said so, but sorry about your RFA. Of course, it was kind of to be expected. I think you'd be a good admin, but I think you probably wouldn't want the associated pain-in-the-ass that comes when you do things while also happening to be an admin. Being able to do things as a regular user (even commenting) has its perks. (And if you still don't believe, just go look at the grief Alison has to put up with.) I'd almost considered running for admin again here recently, but the indefinite blocks kind of put a damper on that plot. Maybe in 2014. :-) I've been doing a bunch of work at lately, if you're into that kind of thing. The wiki could always use new (clueful) users. (This applies to anyone else stalking/lurking. If you'd like an account there [it's currently a fishbowl wiki], request one at m:WMFACCOUNT or e-mail me or some other admin.) --MZMcBride (talk) 05:32, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

You are invited to a Women in the Arts Meetup & Edit-a-thon on Friday, March 29

In honor of Women's History Month, the Smithsonian and the National Museum of Women in the Arts are teaming up to organize a Women in the Arts Meetup & Edit-a-thon on Friday, March 29, 2013 from 10:00am - 5:00pm. The event is focused on encouraging women editors while improving resource entries about women artists and art world figures. This event is free of charge, but participation is limited to 20 volunteers, so RSVP today! Sarasays (talk) 23:13, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm. An event from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. on a Friday. Hmmm. --MZMcBride (talk) 16:28, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

DBR missing fields Resource: Database reports/Meta-Wiki rights changes has been missing the previous/subsequent rights changes for a few months now. (talk) 14:38, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Now that local bureaucrats have the ability to remove adminship (cf. Special:ListGroupRights), most adminship removals are done locally instead of at Meta-Wiki these days. So the report is up-to-date (as is its underlying log), it just may not contain the information you happen to be interested in. --MZMcBride (talk) 16:27, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
One additional minor note: rows are records, columns are fields. "DBR missing fields" is slightly inaccurate. ;-) --MZMcBride (talk) 16:34, 22 March 2013 (UTC)


Popcorn (2609202064).jpg Popcorn!
Reading your talk page is always a pleasure. And just when your block log was beginning to look respectable. tssk tssk. On with the drahma! Theo10011 (talk) 14:56, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Yes, my block log has been re-sullied. I'm glad my travails could provide adequate amusement for you! --MZMcBride (talk) 16:30, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

can you delete this page

there's a spelling error on activist

and leave the new version -- Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:29, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi. It looks like Adrian Visby (activitst) was deleted and it looks like Adrian Visby (activist) may be deleted as well. --MZMcBride (talk) 09:08, 23 March 2013 (UTC)


Not sure if you're watching your Wikisource page, so posting here instead. Regarding [4]. Would it be possible to add a "last reviewer" column to the table? Relates to a discussion here. Moondyne (talk) 07:05, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi. I've asked Billinghurst to weigh in here. I wrote checker for him a long time ago and I barely remember much about it. As long as he's okay with a "Last reviewer" column, I'd be happy to add it. (I didn't really follow the linked discussion on his talk page at all, sorry.) I can't imagine it'd be too difficult to add the column (though I say this without remembering much about the Proofread Page extension except that it's pretty wonky...). --MZMcBride (talk) 09:04, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
It isn't an issue, the purpose of the tool was to identify pages from a work that had not been transcluded. If checker can also serves the purpose to provide further information, that is no issue at all. To note thoug that it isn't last editor data that we wish to have, we are after the editor that set the pagequality status which is at the top of the file, and is concealed by the javascript, eg. we want the user from <pagequality level="3" user="Billinghurst" />. I don't think that that information is retained in the API, and would need to be grep'd. -- billinghurst sDrewth 10:26, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
I didn't understand what you were saying until I saw this diff. Jesus Christ. Is it really stored like that? --MZMcBride (talk) 19:34, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Nullum crimen, nulla poena sine praevia lege poenali

Hallo there MZMcBride (talk),
I have noticed that we reached pretty quickly wp:3RR in Resource: Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2013_March_25.
An answer from you would be deeply appreciated:
if you could kindly tell me where is this "No Animated Gifs rule" mentioned.
  M aurice   Carbonaro  10:15, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi. No crime, it's just that including animated GIFs in deletion discussion comments or votes is not something we do. It disrupts the page for others. :-) The discussion seems to be going well (and surprisingly that redirect may be kept), but your recent editing here... take extra care with the article namespace. Internal bullshit is fine (e.g., WP:LIGHTBULB, which you seem to really enjoy). However, when edits start affecting the encyclopedia (the content namespaces), it stops being bullshit and turns into something more serious. I hope you can see that. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:33, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Preview page with this template

How does "Preview page with this template" work? How can one preview unless the template under test has a fullpagename parameter? — CpiralCpiral 03:31, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi. It's kind of a confusing feature, yes. Perhaps a demonstration would be easier.
  1. Go to <>.
  2. Change "| bodystyle = line-height: 1.2em" to "| bodystyle = line-height: 10.2em" in the edit window.
  3. Below the edit window, next to "Preview page with this template", enter "Roe v. Wade" and then click the nearest "Show preview" button.
The resulting page will have a ridiculous-looking infobox, as you've changed the infobox's line-height from 1.2em to 10.2em. But you can (hopefully) see that the "Preview page with this template" feature works by showing you (the editor) what an article (Roe v. Wade) would look like if you updated a particular template (Template:Infobox SCOTUS case) that the article uses. Hopefully this makes sense. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:38, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Thank you MZMcBride, I now see its utility compared to sandboxing, and you've saved me time.
But can you see how "With this template" could mean two things? ("Will use"/"Has use of", "this code"/"the code")
How about "Sandbox a view of a page (below)." and under that
"Page title that uses {{Infobox SCOTUS case}}:Roe v. Wade"
i.e. "Page title" could say more: "Page title that already uses this template:".
e.g. "Preview page with this template" could say one of:
  • For a page having this template, preview with this version.
  • Preview with this version.
  • Sandbox a page.
The facts seem to be 1)The page must already use the template 2)The template must graphical, and 3) It's offered on all template editing, even on /doc where it's useless, and even on template code where it's not graphical. If so, it should be an opt-in widget, being misleading more than half of the time? For example it should not be offered at where "Page title" is triply confusing. — CpiralCpiral 22:17, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Hir Bride, I have created userlogs database report in urwiki using But this code put the text in wiki page in a wrong way See that page. I pastebin the code here. Whats going wrong? Muhammad Shuaib (talk) 09:22, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure. Bi-directional text issues always give me a headache. :-( --MZMcBride (talk) 05:50, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Article count in Main Page's header

Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, MZMcBride. You have new messages at David Levy's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--David Levy 03:16, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Mr Bernstein's much deserved Easter holiday.

Hi MZ, hope your bot has enjoyed himself over Easter and not eat too many Easter eggs. His usual updates have been missed at Resource: List of Wikipedians by number of edits and we will be delighted when he returns from holiday:) ?ereSpielChequers 17:48, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

The Toolserver is very unstable. Resource: List of Wikipedians by number of edits/Age reads "10 April 2013" right now, though. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:48, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

WikiDefender Barnstar Hires.png The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
For your nomination at Resource: Articles for deletion/Hitler (retail store). Bearian (talk) 19:56, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 05:45, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

hi janel

Kitten in a helmet.jpg

Hello my love

Tom guiry (talk) 03:36, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Sup? --MZMcBride (talk) 05:43, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject U2 invitation

Frankfurt U2.svg Hello! This message is to inform you that Resource: WikiProject U2 needs your input! Please, join this discussion on this talk page!

You may add yourself to our member list below by clicking here!

Project U2 member list
  1. Melicans (talk · contribs) 14:11, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
  2. Dream out loud (talk · contribs) 16:35, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
  3. Pjoef (talk · contribs) 16:43, 10 February 2008 (UTC) The 80s, from Boy to Rattle and Hum plus the ONE Campaign
  4. Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk · contribs) 03:05, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
  5. Lemurbaby (talk · contribs) 03:01, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
  6. Difop (talk · contribs) 20:26, 19 October 2012 (WEST)
  7. Miss Bono (talk · contribs) 11:53, 14 November 2012 (UTC) The entire career of the band plus Bono and Ali Hewson.
  8. Cullen328 (talk · contribs) 22:10, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
  9. Teancum (talk · contribs) 14:08, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
  10. PBASH607 (talk · contribs) 03:13, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
  11. Mayast (talk · contribs) 19:32, 5 February 2014 (UTC) Upcoming songs and album (2014)
  12. c_meindl (talk · contribs) 10:45, 6 February 2014 Taking a resource class and had to join a WikiProject. I am interested in supplementing song stubs and articles!
  13. atuldeshmukh1 (talk · contribs)
  14. Calidum (talk · contribs) Wish I had seen this sooner. 01:00, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
  15. Fylbecatulous (talk · contribs) returning to active status; just based on a feeling... Fylbecatulous talk 15:44, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
  16. [[User:<Pushandturn>|<Pushandturn>]] ([[User talk:<Pushandturn>|talk]] · [[Special:Contribs/<Pushandturn>|contribs]]) 00:57, 1 May 2019 (UTC) optional: Im a longtime U2 fan and I went to the U2 360 tour and love sharing their music!

-pjoef (talk o contribs) 12:11, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm. I wonder what I did to deserve this. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:43, 14 April 2013 (UTC)


Jump in here at a larger level and feel free to format, add, sort, organize, or just say what you think. I'm going to read through that whole "microformat" thing later today. You're help is ALWAYS appreciated MZM, you know that. -- 17:48, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

  • 2.5 questions
  • 1. What was that meta site for wiki to request a user name? (I'll scroll through your talk after posting) found it .. ygm
  • 2. Is there a way to scan all the articles and see how many have infoboxes?
  • 2.5 IF that can be done, can it say what class the articles are? (1m start w/infobox, 3m w/o infobox - 3m GA w/infobox, 1m w/o infobox)
  • how hard would it be to do? -- 11:04, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
    • (talk page stalker) #2 would be pretty easy to do, you just need to go through Category:Infobox templates and get the transclusion count for each.

      2.5 is also doable. (It's much easier for GA/FA, than start class though). Legoktm (talk) 12:35, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

      • Thanks for volunteering to gather these stats, Legoktm. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 12:38, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
        • I, er. Whaaaaat. Fine. Legoktm (talk) 12:50, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
LOL ... sorry folks. But thank you. Not anything important, and I'm certainly in no rush for it - I'm just trying to wrap my head around a pretty big picture at the moment. -- 20:26, 6 April 2013 (UTC)


gabe -- Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:48, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

He makes a compelling point. --Closedmouth (talk) 15:38, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
gabe --MZMcBride (talk) 05:42, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

DC meetup & dinner on Saturday, April 13!

Please join Wikimedia DC for a social meetup and dinner at Vapiano (near Farragut North/Farragut West) on Saturday, April 13 at 5:30 PM All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please see Resource: Meetup/DC 36. Hope to see you there! Kirill [talk] 19:03, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Dinner at 5:30 p.m. is a bit... we'll fix that in the future. :-) Otherwise, great meetup. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:41, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Bug 46086

It's good to see you and others getting things going over there. I just wanted to note that I meant my response to be to comment #17 rather than yours. INeverCry 21:54, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. :-)
It wasn't clear to me (and others) that this bug is so prevalent/annoying until recently, I don't think. Otherwise it would've been triaged more appropriately sooner. Hopefully it'll be fixed up by midweek next week. I'll poke people as necessary.
Generally, the bug classification system is ignored by most developers. There's a general theory that the actual critical bugs (such as the site being inaccessible or active data loss/corruption) will be resolved as soon as possible and every other bug will be resolved as soon as someone has time/inclination to resolve it. (That is, the bug classification rarely determines what actually gets worked on.) In a case like this, it's a matter of poking the appropriate people (Greg G., Tim S., Rob L., and Sam R.), namely people capable of debugging this from the server side to figure out why this deletion-related database query is erroring and how to fix it. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:56, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for helping. I'm just a button pusher pretty much, so I'm glad some expert eyes are on this now. INeverCry 07:07, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
A fellow admin on Commons just posted this error message:
A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:

    (SQL query hidden)

from within function "WikiPage::updateCategoryCounts". Database returned error "1213: Deadlock found when trying to get lock; try restarting transaction (".
Should this be shown to someone? INeverCry 16:51, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
You're always welcome to file a bug at <>. Try to include as many details as possible when filing a bug (URLs, actions being performed when the error occurred, etc.). --MZMcBride (talk) 16:54, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
I only mentioned it because it was suggested to maybe be part of 46086. If it's another bug, and doesn't bother my deletion tools, then "frankly my dear, I don't give a damn." Face-wink.svg INeverCry 16:59, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
And I don't delete files on Commons. ;-) We have to look out for each other, of course. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 17:45, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
I hear ya, but if you've got me looking out for you on technical matters, you're in trouble. Face-wink.svg INeverCry 18:23, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
I think you hit bugzilla:13921. Legoktm (talk) 17:35, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
Indeed. Good find. Cross-referenced at bugzilla:13921#c15. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:42, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
I've noted this at COM:AN, where my fellow admin had posted about it. Thank you both. INeverCry 18:30, 14 April 2013 (UTC)


For the last couple days I've been getting a bunch of "NOT FOUND. The requested url was not found on this server" messages from Any idea why? Something to do with the above thread? -- 09:23, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

You're not alone, it's been happening to everyone the past few days. The Toolserver isn't in great shape. --MZMcBride (talk) 10:16, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
Ahhh .. gotcha. Thx for the link. Long as it's not on my end, I'm not gonna worry about it. -- 10:38, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

DC meetups on April 19 and 20

Wikimedia DC invites you to join us for two exciting events this weekend:

On the evening of Friday, April 19, we're hosting our first-ever WikiSalon at our K Street office. The WikiSalon will be a twice-monthly informal meetup and collaborative editing event to help build the community of Wikimedia enthusiasts here in DC; please join us for its inaugural session. Light refreshments will be provided.

On Saturday, April 20, we've partnered with the George Washington University to host the All Things GW Edit-a-Thon at the Teamsters Labor History Research Center. Please join us for behind-the-scenes tours of the University Archives and help edit articles about GWU history.

We look forward to seeing you at one or both of these events! Kirill [talk] 20:08, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Arb comments

I realize that my shouting edit summary was over the top and I was considering restoring the discussion myself (I was away for a while), but would you please explain how your comments could possibly be perceived as helpful? AutomaticStrikeout (T o C o Sign AAPT) 21:20, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Sometimes the most obvious solutions are overlooked. I was pointing out a very simple solution to the problem, of course. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 21:23, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
For the curious: Wikipedia talk:Arbs are people too#Simple solution. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:32, 17 April 2013 (UTC)


From the looks of the page, I'm not sure if you're watching LaraBot's talk page, so I wanted to draw your attention to this comment I made there. Thanks. jcgoble3 (talk) 01:04, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Lua and subpages

I have provided a subpage iterator over at Meta, which you may wish to use:

local subpages = require('Module:Subpages').subpages

for page in subpages('Global message delivery/Targets') do
  -- do whatever with page

--darklama 23:32, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Hah! That's insane. Both impressive and cringeworthy. :-) Thanks, I'll take a look at using it over at Meta-Wiki (I'm still wrapping my head around Lua). I went to comment on bugzilla:47137, but you beat me to it. Very nice. --MZMcBride (talk) 01:37, 21 April 2013 (UTC) Resource: GTFO listed at Redirects for discussion


An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Resource: GTFO. Since you had some involvement with the Resource: GTFO redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). Thryduulf (talk) 06:52, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the note, Thryduulf. Without it, I probably would've missed the entire deletion discussion. It seems to me that (redirect) deletion discussions opened without notifying the page creator should be automatically closed as invalid. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:38, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

nie -- Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:29, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

You're telling me, girl. You're telling me. Happy Monday! --MZMcBride (talk) 13:54, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Your closure

I would appreciate it if you would adjust the inappropriate tone in your closure and other comments. I would also like for you to explain why my position is an "extreme view", as it is most definitely not. AutomaticStrikeout (T o C o Sign AAPT) 20:48, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

No and no. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:52, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
I understand your perspective, I just try to keep the peace, hoping we all just live and let live. He's really a good guy, and I think he showed that by changing the image first, instead of requiring you make the first move. I sincerely appreciate you returning the olive branch there. Dennis Brown - © Join WER 22:05, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Urgent page restoration

Hiya, is there any chance you could restore this page on the Foundation Wiki. You prodded it last month, but it is not unused :) it is currently the main directdebit landing page for Wikimedia UK. We're working on replacing it (it's only just now been noticed!) but if you could restore it in the interim that would be really helpful! --Errant (chat!) 21:35, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Sure, done. Please request an account on when you get a chance so that you can undo edits like these yourself. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 21:47, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks and thanks! I'll do that :) --Errant (chat!) 21:51, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

my subpage

OK, I unprotected it but why does it matter if the protection has no effect? Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:02, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

I was asking myself the same! Thanks for the unprotection. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 23:04, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
I thought blocking the bot, which for all I know is only going wrong for me, seemed more drastic that just protecting my page, I'll just unprotect for now and see what happens Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:12, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
Thank you! Sorry to be a bother. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:17, 24 April 2013 (UTC)


Re your message concerning the protection of User:Sango123 s page in March 2007, she stopped editing 1 October 2006. At the time I protected it there was a vandalism problem. If you wish to undo the protection I will not object. I must add she is long gone and I miss her. I would hate to see her page defiled but sentiment lacks value in these matters.--Theda 04:00, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protection seems to be favored for pages like this, from what I've been reading and seeing. Full protection is pretty nasty and anti-wiki, so any pages we can shift from full protection to semi-protection would be a step in the right direction, in my opinion. Thanks for getting back to me. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 16:23, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
Changed to semi-protection, I totally agree. Thanks for the feedback.--Theda 20:57, 25 April 2013 (UTC)


It appears that you deleted this before. Do you want to send it to WP:AfD? It was also mentioned in today's Signpost newsletter. Bearian (talk) 15:08, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Eh? I don't see my name in the page's log. Perhaps I deleted a redirect to it? --MZMcBride (talk) 15:28, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Life Online


My dreams of just being normal feel lost, I have had the sorest experience . I switched places because I can't trust anyone. Now I am left homeless, jobless and possibly lost the job I always wanted to work. All due to my accounts being messed up. I did cause this on my own and it just leaved me with nothing. My family is no longer, my life as I knew it is gone from people using my information and accounts. People now think I am insane and sick because all this stress all this has caused me. It's gas been awful and I was very excited. I have not put adds on my accounts they were merge by my brokerage and now I am in serious trouble and don't know what trust! Heart broken. And now I loss my accounts as well.

What I haven't even meant to do anything now I am left with nothing and have affected others losses my home. Because I was unaware of the difference between two accounts. No one told me they are linked and I didn't want things posted that were.

I am being threatened by others I'm going to have to move from here due to all of this and possible go to jail in the us. People have gotten my information and I feel that there has been know support from anyone.

How does this happen Accounts should never be linked, there should be one for work and one of your own. My emails, phone and computers have all been out of commission and I have no contacts for anything. I thought I had a friend? This just is not fair.

I have taken computer classes and all my accounts are on freeze so really if you invite someone into your group why not make them aware of this in simple terms so if say you on you phone you can feel safe using fb, not having to worry about being charged daily for copyright notices for anything I do on my phone or computers. Something to think about. I just started my career and it's now over before I even got to start not to mention the lost of my family! For something that I should have been informed more clearly. I have had people throwing agreement after agreement in front of me and just but yet know one gives any answers. Very sad.

This has effected my life on every way possible. I have nothing left now but embarrassment! Amber -Leigh Teeple Keller Williams Solid Rock Realty -- Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 07:26, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Your post reminded me of <> a little. Though it appears you exist. Or at least someone has gone through the trouble of creating two LinkedIn profiles for you that match your story here.
I'm sorry to hear you're having a rough time lately. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help. --MZMcBride (talk) 13:40, 2 May 2013 (UTC) Resource: Database reports/Articles containing links to the user space

I see the above posted an updated report last night, but from the first couple of dozen I checked there seems to have been a good number of false positives, several of which did have such links but were removed already some time ago--Jac16888 Talk 10:14, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah... the Toolserver is slowly dying and this report probably needs to be rewritten (again). :-( --MZMcBride (talk) 18:56, 7 May 2013 (UTC) Resource: Database reports/Most-watched pages by namespace

Hi, Could your Bot do the same for the german wikipedia? E.G. at Resource: Meistbeobachtete Seiten nach Namensraum. Thanks in advance --Zulu55en (talk) 19:10, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi. I don't have the time/energy to set this up, but the code is available on GitHub if you'd like to set up these reports yourself. I hope that helps. --MZMcBride (talk) 18:55, 7 May 2013 (UTC)


I hope you don't mind a quick deletion question. I noticed all the G8s you just did. I wanted to batch delete them, but I can't seem to get the D-batch function in Twinkle to work. The P-batch function calls up a list in seconds, but with D-batch all I get is "Grabbing list of pages: loading..." with no result (atleast within the 5 minutes I left it going). I'm sure I'm probably doing something wrong. Thanks for your time. INeverCry 18:52, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Hmmmm, sorry, I'm not sure. I don't use Twinkle very often. Which page are you trying to run a batch deletion on? Resource: Database reports/Broken redirects? --MZMcBride (talk) 18:54, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Category:Candidates for speedy deletion. Is there another tool/script for batch deletions from a page or cat? I'm used to using DelteLinks on Commons. INeverCry 18:57, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Honestly, it's been over three years since I've deleted anything here, so I'm not sure. And even when I was active in an admin capacity here, I mostly used browser tabs and a custom script or two (no Twinkle). :-) AN or VPT would probably have much better answers for you.
I neglected to say thank you for the deletions you've been doing. I realize (better than most) how tedious administrative work like this can be, but I certainly noticed and appreciate the work. --MZMcBride (talk) 19:03, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. I'm sure I'll find a tool to use, or some other method of not having to do these one at a time. Unfortunately I'm a technical novice, so I can't write my own tool or script. INeverCry 19:25, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

DC meetup & dinner on Saturday, May 11!

Please join Wikimedia DC for a social meetup and dinner at Vapiano (near Farragut North/Farragut West) on Saturday, May 11 at 5:30 PM. All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please see the meetup page. Hope to see you there! Kirill [talk] 23:08, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Rogue EdwardsBot run

Hi, is there any means for starting EdwardsBot (talk · contribs) other than by altering User:EdwardsBot/Status to "Start"? Please see User talk:EdwardsBot#This month in GLAM. --Redrose64 (talk) 06:41, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

m:Global message delivery/Spam --MZMcBride (talk) 13:11, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

EdwardsBot posting in a duplicitous manner

Hi. I notice you that your bot seems to have problems on occitan wiktionary (it inserts repetitively the same message, see here), so maybe elsewhere too. It would be a good idea to indicate clearly links to your main account on all wiki's user pages of EdwardsBot. Regards. Xic667 (talk) 17:50, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Definitely elsewhere too; the same user (but at Occitan Wikipedia) got two copies of that message. The request is here and the recipient list that was used is here. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:18, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

On clouds

HW cloud.png



Killiondude (talk) 00:45, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Dominic McDevitt-Parks

Closing an AfD that you nominated, after less than four hours, with only three supporters? I invite you to undo that, otherwise I shall take it to deletion review. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:27, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

To be clear, Pigsonthewing, are you objecting because you believe the article should be kept, or because you think it should be deleted, or purely as a matter of process? Newyorkbrad (talk) 18:49, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
I thought this matter was resolved. It's fairly well-established that a deletion nominator can choose to withdraw a deletion nomination. Given that the page author, deletion nominator, article subject, and all others who had commented agreed that an article was inappropriate, it seemed rather silly to engage in a protracted deletion discussion when the normal wiki process (redirecting the article) is completely sufficient. Echoing Newyorkbrad's comment, what's the actual objection here? --MZMcBride (talk) 20:23, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
My concerns are stated clearly, above. Are you going to reopen the debate, or shall I take it to DR? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:35, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Two editors have asked for a clarification of your concerns. Surely that's a sign that they were not stated clearly above.
I think deletion review would be a waste of time. You're free to (re-)nominate the article for deletion (or nominate the redirect for deletion, as it were), but I won't re-open the deletion discussion as it was properly closed. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:49, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

From WP:Deletion review: discuss the matter with the closing administrator and try to resolve it with him or her first.. I don't think a "undo or I take it to DR" qualifies as a discussion. --regentspark (comment) 20:55, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict; outdent) Pigsonthewing, if you don't articulate a substantive explanation for why you believe the AFD result was inappropriate, I'm probably going to summarily close any DRV discussion as an abuse of the process. The outcome here is quite in order both procedurally and substantively, to the point that I see nothing that is reasonable to object to. You don't get to go to DRV for the sake of going to DRV; there needs to be a specific issue that needs resolving, and you need to raise it with the person who closed the discussion before you take it to DRV. Newyorkbrad (talk) 20:59, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I have done: the AfD was closed by its own nominator, after less than four hours, with only three supporters. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:51, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Right. Nobody's disputing what happened. The question is what outcome you're hoping for here with regard to this article, a question you seem to be deliberately avoiding.
A link for the lazy: Resource: Deletion review/Log/2013 May 13#Dominic McDevitt-Parks. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:48, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
I've raised the issue at the DRV. I don't see how this can be considered disruptive unless I'm missing some context. It was an out-of-process close that was, IMO, really a bad idea. Nom closing an AfD they started is almost never a good idea unless it's a withdraw. I'd be happy with changing the closing statement to "withdrawn" and then doing the redirect as a purely editorial action. But instead this puts an "AfD outcome" as the reason for the redirect making it seem that anyone undoing the redirect would be undoing the outcome of an AfD. Admins should't steamroll over others and that is what the AfD and this discussion certainly feel like. Hobit (talk) 01:06, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
Just to explain in words written by someone better with English than I (from WP:PI)

The problem with yielding to this temptation is that it damages the overall structure of Wikipedia. It throws sand in the gears of the project. When people see others acting outside of process, they may be convinced that they ought to do the same; or they may be convinced that their individual voices and views will get no respect or consideration. If everyone acts outside of process, there is no process, no organization to our efforts. Then we do not have a collaborative project; we have chaos.

WP:IAR is a good and wonderful thing. But I'm not seeing a justification for the out-of-process close. If no one objected, great. But someone did (rudely it's true). There is value in following our processes unless those processes are causing harm (to a person or the encyclopedia). I'm not seeing that. Now if this is a personal thing somewhere Andy's request isn't a good faith objection, that could easily justify this. But I've seen no claim that that is the case to this point. Hobit (talk) 01:16, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
You're being quite silly. The process is there to serve the project, not the other way around. This had nothing to do with ignoring rules; it had everything to do with using common sense to reach a reasonable outcome. I have no idea why Andy is attempting to stir this pot, but I'm fairly confident that you can drag this out over the next few weeks or not and we're still gonna reach the same conclusion. I'm finished with this. --MZMcBride (talk) 01:26, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
Eh, I just get frustrated when admins ignore process over other's objections. There was a right way to do what you did (withdraw the nomination, redirect without closing your own nomination). Not sure if you didn't do that because it was too much work or because you wanted to have the AfD close hanging over any attempt to remove the redirect or for some other reason. But in any case, you didn't, someone objected, and very senior people with advanced permissions are now bullying (and I use that word with care--it is exactly what it looks like) a user over it, including threats of blocks and just overriding process yet again. Oyi. Hobit (talk) 02:18, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
For the record, I'm not an admin here and haven't been for over three years now. Andy, with over thirty blocks and a one-year ban to his name, isn't being bullied, he's being disruptive. It's perfectly fine for editors to have different views on notability and inclusion criteria. It's completely unacceptable to create a circus for no particular reason other than a twisted fetish for process and bureaucracy. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:15, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
  • By closing the AFD you were giving an editorial decision the strength of a full AFD consensus. There is no way that DRV wouldn't void that outcome but I also can't see that there needs to be an AFD consensus here as ordinary editing has resolved the issue. Your text suggests that you considered the AFD was no longer necessary so I think the outcome you mean was to withdraw the AFD. On the basis that we will almost certainly end up with that after 7 days of unpleasant argument I have decided to cut the gordian knot and have voided your close under WP:NAC and substituted a withdrawn AFD with a note that the merge is subject to usual editorial processes. I hope this brings a close to this episode but I also endorse Hobit's concerns over the way that Andy's objections were dealt with. Spartaz Humbug! 06:33, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
Although Pigsonthewing did not articulate a reasoned objection to the AFD closing, Hobit did. I endorse Spartaz's resolution of the issue. Newyorkbrad (talk) 13:55, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm so relieved the paperwork has been properly filed. I was up most of the night worrying. --MZMcBride (talk) 14:21, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

If you don't understand the difference between an AfD that's closed as "redirect" and one that's withdrawn by the nominator, then you've got plenty of things to worry about. --RexxS (talk) 17:53, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
And here I thought this conversation couldn't get more retarded. How wrong I was! Sure, go on. Explain the obviously substantial difference between the decision to redirect the article to Wikipedian in Residence and the current state of the article (a redirect to Wikipedian in Residence). Go on. --MZMcBride (talk) 18:35, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
If you drive through a red light to get to a certain place or instead wait until it turns green, you still end up in the same place. But one way was problematic, the other was not. Hobit (talk) 21:36, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
Even in the middle of the night when there are no other cars around? --MZMcBride (talk) 21:41, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
Yes, sometimes there are pedestrians that you didn't see. Believe it or not, rules apply to you as well. If you go through life believing you know better than everybody else, sooner or later you'll come unstuck. As for the state of the article, the current state is because Spartaz has enough clue to clean the mess you left behind, thankfully. It's not through your efforts that we have a sensible, if sub-optimal outcome. If you had had the patience to let an admin close the AfD after a decent period, then the redirect would also have a consensus demonstrated that it should remain a redirect; as it is, anyone could restore the article and we'd end up with a debate again to establish consensus. Get it now? --RexxS (talk) 22:14, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
The mess I left behind? To recap: I opened a deletion discussion, the page creator, page subject, and myself all agreed that a redirect was the most appropriate outcome for the article (in addition to several comments by others that agreed with redirecting), and then I closed the discussion as no longer being necessary. And yet you've come to my talk page to lecture me about how I've made a mess. What the hell is wrong with you? Go away. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:51, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
Did you hit a pedestrian last night? And he messed up the intersection? --SmokeyJoe (talk) 02:55, 15 May 2013 (UTC)


Hi. I know I bother you too much on this site. You're one of the few people who manages to keep up with everything. What do you think about Resource: Flow? I heard it mentioned before but today I decided to do some research.

The cover page seems to be making rather harsh assertions about the current state of things. For example, calling certain aspects of Wikipedia's cultural norms "crazy" and "Black Magick". It seems a bit propaganda-ish, tbh. Also, it brings into question the argument about whether the users who the Foundation is trying to accommodate would actually be helpful to a project of this nature.

All in all, I agree that resource needs an overhaul but I'm skeptical of this Flow project. Also, the name in itself makes me think of all sorts of puns. Thoughts? Killiondude (talk) 22:47, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi. You bother me less than most users around here.
Flow is basically the successor to LiquidThreads. It's Brandon Harris' baby and consequently he's naturally protective of it (e.g., he's previously edit warred to stop other users from mentioning that Flow is the successor to LiquidThreads).
The current wikitext discussion system is pretty awful, but I agree that the language used on Resource: Flow (which is bizarrely duplicated on isn't the best. Several of the other design choices (discussed at mw:Talk:Flow Portal) are also questionable.
If you're interested, there's a Flow prototype at <>. And I imagine you'd enjoy the threads here: mw:Talk:Flow Portal/Interactive Prototype.
"Flow" is usually a euphemism for menstruation (albeit generally without the W). It's not much worse than the many other Wikimedia euphemisms (dumps, movement, retention, endowment). --MZMcBride (talk) 00:15, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
I'd appreciate it if you would actually assume good faith when I say that it's not a successor to LiquidThreads.--Jorm (WMF) (talk) 02:11, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
In many ways, it's indisputable that Flow is a successor (if not the successor) to LiquidThreads (purely chronologically, for example), but I understand how tainted the name is for some and I also understand and appreciate that Flow should be much better.
For what it's worth, unlike many people, I didn't/don't mind LiquidThreads. I'm one of the few people who is much more annoyed at how it was deployed/developed than the extension/functionality itself. Yes, it was rough around the edges, but the real issue was that it had no real technical support. That isn't to say that I won't poke fun at LiquidThreads, but I spent a fair bit of my time testing the extension on some pre-Labs wiki ( or something) before all development on the extension abruptly stopped and the wiki disappeared. And here we are, over a decade later, and still replying by beginning each line with colons.
I don't like the current discussion system and I'd like to see a better system implemented. I'm hopeful Flow will be that system, but the history in this area (e.g., LiquidThreads) makes me w(e)ary. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:20, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
LOL I really didn't realize all the subtext with these naming conventions. I can't believe how I missed "Flow", for now what seems like an apparent euphemism. The nomenclatures do seem to be getting worse. We should totally have a page about this on Meta! Theo10011 (talk) 14:51, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
m:Euphemisms --MZMcBride (talk) 18:24, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Tangentially, Commons:Help:Watchlist messages looks interesting. It appears (at first glance) to be a much better way of getting information out to logged in users and potentially something that might benefit the English Wikipedia. Killiondude (talk) 19:16, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

I'd say this is closer to Echo than Flow, but I agree that it looks neat. Eventually it'd be nice to have a way to manage subscriptions to a newsletter or to a WikiProject or whatever. And within these subscriptions, you could choose to have an e-mail, an Echo notification, and/or a talk page message. Perhaps someday. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:32, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

DC WikiSalon on May 24

Wikimedia DC invites you to join us for our next DC WikiSalon, which will be held on the evening of May 24 at our K Street office.

The WikiSalon an informal gathering of Wikimedia enthusiasts, who come together to discuss the Wikimedia projects and collaboratively edit. There's no set agenda, and guests are welcome to recommend articles for the group to edit or edit on their own. Light refreshments will be provided.

We look forward to seeing you there! Kirill [talk] 18:23, 17 May 2013 (UTC)


Hi MZ, hope all is well with you and yours. I was wondering if you could give Mr Bernstein a nudge, as he appears to have dozed off. ?ereSpielChequers 06:04, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

The Toolserver is dying. I imagine this is a symptom. --MZMcBride (talk) 06:08, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
Oh dear, any chance of moving this to labs, or is that a sensitive subject? ?ereSpielChequers 09:19, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
Labs doesn't yet have database replication, which this report relies upon. Labs should have database replication implemented and stabilized by the end of this month, I'm told. --MZMcBride (talk) 18:19, 20 May 2013 (UTC) Resource: List of Wikipedians by number of edits/1-1000

Are you watching User talk:BernsteinBot? Could you respond at User Resource: List of Wikipedians by number of edits.2F1.E2.80.931000 update?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:05, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Not very closely, clearly. :-) I'll respond over there now. --MZMcBride (talk) 18:10, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

My name is NOT Geraldo but Gerald - and if you leave me a goddamn email address I'll attach photocopies of my passport, drivers license, birth certificate and whatnot ! IU'm tired of this mockery !

My name is NOT Geraldo but Gerald - and if you leave me a goddamn email address I'll attach photocopies of my passport, drivers license, birth certificate and whatnot ! IU'm tired of this mockery !

or -- Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 07:43, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

GERALDO?! IS THAT YOU? CAN YOU HEAR ME? HELLO. I'M HERE. HELLO. --MZMcBride (talk) 14:36, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

XFF project

I'm having difficulties finding anyone to talk to about configuring an Opera range (or any range, for that matter) as a trusted XFF range. E-mails to go unacknowledged, as do messages at http://meta.wikimedia.org Any clues?—Kww(talk) 17:00, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi. I just saw your note here. If you file a bug in Bugzilla ( with the relevant information, someone should be able to knock this out for you fairly easily. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:02, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Example bug: bugzilla:14700. The trusted XFF list: <>. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:06, 24 May 2013 (UTC) is mine. This really seems like a screwed up process, and seems to default to having most proxies being treated as "untrusted", which is really a bad idea. Shouldn't this be something that any checkuser can add to any individual resource version?—Kww(talk) 17:16, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I think you may be conflating proxies and (trusted) XFF, but I don't really know much about this. Generally, yes, in terms of maintenance overhead and wiki sovereignty, as much as possible should be left to individual communities and local privileged users to decide. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:43, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
As I understand it, the rules are:

1) Proxy doesn't send XFF headers: all anyone sees (included checkuser) is the IP address of the proxy.

2) Proxy sends XFF headers, but we don't trust them: IP address of the proxy is presented in the contributions history, and only blocks at the proxy level are effective. Checkusers can see the originating IP when they examine headers, but no one else can.

3) Proxy sends XFF headers, and we do trust them: the IP address of the end user is presented in the contributions history, blocks against the source IP address are effective, and only checkusers can see the existence and use of the proxy.

Case 2 is a pain in the ass. It's done so that we don't present an opportunity to vandals (basically, if we always trusted XFF headers, it would be easy to frame someone for edits he didn't commit). When the proxy is a widely used and reliable one, it prevents our blocking software from working correctly.—Kww(talk) 18:33, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I noticed that you kept the instruction to e-mail xff(a) in your change. I didn't seem to get a response from that. Any reason to believe it's still an active e-mail address?—Kww(talk) 02:36, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I need to catch Tim and ask him if that's still a real e-mail address. Though perhaps the Meta-Wiki page ought to be updated to say to file a bug in Bugzilla instead. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:29, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
It would be nice if we could make this very simple. What we want is for the checkusers to routinely keep this file up to date. It looks to me like people didn't even realize the function was there.—Kww(talk) 03:42, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
As I understand it (and again, I really don't), there's a high level of trust needed to ensure that this feature (trusting X-Forwarded-For headers) is not misused or abused. Due diligence is required with every addition to the list. That said, if you think the feature should be controllable by a page on Meta-Wiki (I assume it'd go there as it covers all Wikimedia wikis), you can file a bug in Bugzilla under MediaWiki extensions --> TrustedXFF. The approach I think you would take is to change the extension to read from a fully protected page on Meta-Wiki (i.e., the page on Meta-Wiki would replace the current text file trusted-hosts.txt) and then you would set up a cron job to update the CDB file every day or every hour or whatever. It's fairly easy to do this, iff the system administrators will go for it. We already have a number of extensions or services that use this kind of approach (a regularly scheduled cron job). It's not really a technical implementation question, it's a (social) policy question.
All that said, from the time you pinged me to the time you got the list updated was a few hours. It's difficult to complain about that. ;-) --MZMcBride (talk) 03:52, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Most watched

About the Resource: Database reports/Most-watched pages: Would you please update the bot so that it reports the number of active users watching a page, rather than all accounts? For example, Jimmy Wales' user page has a total 2,882 watchers, but only 1,238 of them are active users. If you look at this, I think you'll see why this seems important to me. Thanks, WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:43, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi WhatamIdoing. This is probably mostly possible, once the watchlist data gets re-exposed on Tool Labs. iridescent just made a similar request over here: Special:Permalink/682335480#This is cool!.
The only caveat is that the report would probably first sort by most watchers overall and then for each of those users, we would query the MediaWiki Web API to get the active users watchers count. This might mean that some people toward the bottom of the list—that is, users who don't make the first cut-off of the top thousand users by overall watchers count or whatever—might not be included in the report, even if those users technically have more recently active watchers than some people on the list. That might be solvable long-term with additional database table views work. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:08, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. I'll be looking forward to it, and I'm perfectly willing to live with the consequences for the pages towards the bottom of the list that you outline here. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:03, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Webinar / edit-a-thon at the National Library of Medicine (NLM)

Join us at the NLM next week, either in person or online, to learn about NLM resources, hear some great speakers, and do some editing!

organized by Wiki Project Med

On Tuesday, 28 May there will be a community resource meeting at the United States National Library of Medicine in Bethesda, Maryland - with a second on Thursday, 30 May for those who can't make it on Tuesday. You can participate either in-person, or via an online webinar. If you attend in person, USB sticks (but not external drives) are ok to use.

Please go to the event page to get more information, including a detailed program schedule.

If you are interested in participating, please register by sending an email to Please indicate if you are coming in person or if you will be joining us via the webinar. After registering, you will receive additional information about how to get to our campus (if coming in-person) and details about how to join the webinar. Klortho (talk) 00:47, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Export hell seidel steiner.png Thank you for stepping in and fixing my EdwardsBot mistakes. Harej (talk) 07:35, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
that having been steiner --Fran Rogers (talk) 00:29, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

import MySQLdb and

How normal can you the script that can be run on Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia? --Kolega2357 (talk) 23:13, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Question regarding validity of Notable Persons pages

Hi user:MZMcBride I was wondering if you had an advice on how to address a user who continuously wants to delete a notable person's page I created? I have provided ample responses on the notability of the person, but it doesn't seem to be enough. Obviously there sitll needs to be more references added, but marking the page for deletion seems extreme in this situation. Scott Etzler is the page. Any thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks! :) KatiePack1 (talk) 01:41, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

DC WikiSalon on June 6

Wikimedia DC invites you to join us for our next DC WikiSalon, which will be held on the evening of Thursday, June 6 at our K Street office.

The WikiSalon an informal gathering of Wikimedia enthusiasts, who come together to discuss the Wikimedia projects and collaboratively edit. There's no set agenda, and guests are welcome to recommend articles for the group to edit or edit on their own. Light refreshments will be provided.

We look forward to seeing you there! Kirill [talk] 11:53, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Your message

Done. Sorry for the late reply! - Mtmelendez (Talk) 18:34, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Have time on Saturday?

I'm sorry for the last-minute notice, but on Saturday, June 8, from 3 to 6 PM, Wikimedia DC and the Cato Institute are hosting a Legislative Data Meetup. We will discuss the work done so far by WikiProject U.S. Federal Government Legislative Data to put data from Congress onto Wikipedia, as well as what more needs to be done. If you have ideas you'd like to contribute, or if you're just curious and feel like meeting up with other Wikipedians, you are welcome to come! Be sure to RSVP here if you're interested.

I hope to see you there!

(You can unsubscribe from future notifications for D.C.-area events by removing your name from this list.)

Harej (talk) 04:26, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

A kitten for you!


hm thanks

"~ ~ ~ ~", (talk) 15:29, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Edwards Bot Question

Hello! Would the Edwards Bot be able to read this even though there is a bunch of random code within the table or would I have to remove the code?--Dom497 (talk) 14:27, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi. That list is fine to use.
Each wiki page keeps records for every link on the page. EdwardsBot just looks at the User and User talk page links on a given input page. The bot has no idea if the rest of the page is a table or not as it only looks at the [[links]] to the User and User talk namespaces. It'll de-duplicate any list, but subpages are fair game. In your case, you're not linking any subpages, so you're fine. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:27, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

DC meetup & dinner on Saturday, June 15!

Please join Wikimedia DC for a social meetup and dinner at Vapiano (near Farragut North/Farragut West) on Saturday, June 15 at 5:30 PM. All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please see the meetup page. Hope to see you there! Kirill [talk] 19:58, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Two formatting questions for SCOTUS case articles

I'd appreciate your thoughts and/or help with two points.

1. The case infobox template gives far too much weight (word-wise) to situations where a Justice does not participate in a case. Below the list of Justices in the majority, concurring, and dissenting, there's then a prominent centered announcement that "X did not participate in the consideration or decision of the case." See, e.g., In re Snyder or Shaffer v. Heitner. It seems to me it should just say "Not participating: X" in exactly the same format as it says "Concurrence: Y" and "Dissent: Z". If you agree, can that be changed?

2. The article title of the article JPMorgan Chase Bank v. Traffic Stream (BVI) Infrastructure Ltd. starts out in italics and then changes to roman midway. I can't see any reason for this in the coding. Can you advise and/or fix?

Thanks, Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:46, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi. For the infobox, I'm not sure there's a better answer than "that's how it's always been done." It mirrors the format found in the decisions themselves, though I suppose that's not a particularly good reason to do it. I think your proposal is an uncontroversial change. My only hesitation is that "Not Participating" is a fairly long string of text and may disrupt the layout a bit (already "Concurrences" is abbreviated to "Concur," as I recall). If nobody beats me to it, I'll try to implement the change in the next few days (it's Template:Infobox SCOTUS case) and then post to WT:SCOTUS about it. Let me know if you have any thoughts about the length/layout issue.
For the page title, it's a bug in the auto-italicization logic. It's viewing the parenthetical as a disambiguation parenthetical, I think. This can be fixed on that specific page with a template parameter (italic title=force or something), but I'd like to see the issue fixed generally. I'll try to look into this as well in the next few days, assuming nobody else beats me to it. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:15, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your response. I hope we can address the first issue, as it affects a fair number of articles. The second one has been solved manually on the article I cited (perhaps by someone who watches this page), and probably arises fairly infrequently. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:50, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
Mr. Stradivarius very kindly fixed up Template:Italic title (following a thread at Resource: Lua requests), so that issue is now resolved.
I'll try to poke at the infobox later this week. We may want to rethink the layout of that section altogether. I'm not sure. --MZMcBride (talk) 18:05, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Number of watchers

I noticed that the toolserver tool for the number of watchers on a page (the one that links from the "view history" display) seems not to be working. If I understand correctly (and my apologies if you're the wrong person to contact), you wrote that software, so I figured I should let you know. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:10, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Toolserver has been in a bad way for some months (since about August or September 2012). More recently, in mid January 2013, a new feature was added to the left margin, titled "Page information". The number of watchers is given there, in the seventh row of the "Basic information" box. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:02, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! Much appreciated. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:04, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
Is there any chance that we could get them to list the number of active users that are watching the page? The info for this old page is approximately 98% inactive users. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:15, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, Redrose64. I was about to post pretty much what you posted, but then I somehow lost the browser tab. Maybe I'll find it again later. In any case, action=info should be preferred (I consider the Toolserver watcher tool deprecated). I'm still waiting on bugzilla:44252 to be resolved in order to update the link from action=history.
Regarding active watchers, I've filed bugzilla:49506 just now. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:42, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Database reports/Stubs included directly in stub categories

Hi, re Resource: Database reports/Stubs included directly in stub categories: this morning's run took it from 541 entries (on a single page) to 2900 entries (spread over four pages). I've looked at several entries, and there are few that are legitimately listed. Examples:

I'm willing to accept that the data on Toolserver is several weeks (if not months) out of date. Given that the Toolserver problems are unlikely to be resolved soon in the next few months ever, would it be possible to transfer the preparation of this report over to WMF Labs, where data replication is apparently now working? --Redrose64 (talk) 09:13, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I will point out that several of these problems stem from migration of templates over to new categories. For whatever reason resource is currently very, very slow in migrating the articles for those templates over to the new categories. Case in point, Category:China school stubs should have 142 articles, according to the template transclusion counts, but currently sits at just 33, even though I moved the templates a full week ago. Just a couple articles into the list, I hit a set of the Swedish schools which suffer the same fate. Dawynn (talk) 11:59, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

"... is a case" or "... was a case"?

Regarding your recent edit of Maryland v. King, right after I made the verb tense change in the lede that you reverted, I started a discussion on the topic at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Legal#Verb tense for legal cases. Please encourage other editors specializing in U.S. legal articles to join the discussion.--Anomalocaris (talk) 19:35, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

A page you started has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Maryland v. King, MZMcBride!

Wikipedia editor NDSteve10 just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Thanks for creating this article. It will certainly be useful as it raises important Constitutional issues. I hope you (or another contributor) will consider adding additional information, including the procedural history.

To reply, leave a comment on NDSteve10's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

Hi. Heh, thanks. I just took another look at PageCuration. It's still fairly neat. I filed two bugs against it: bugzilla:49631 and bugzilla:49632.
Yes, it'd be great if someone expanded that article. ;-) I laid most of the groundwork, so it should be pretty easy to do so now. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:30, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

EdwardsBot adds a message to the end of forum page

Dear colleague, I see that EdwardsBot added a topic to the bottom of a forum page at the Russian Wikipedia. A new topic needs to be added to the top of the page (after {{/}}<!-- ?, ? ? ? . ? ? ? /* ? */ --> and an empty line); the oldest topic not yet archived stays at the bottom. When a new topic is added to the bottom, this topic has a chance to be not attended by users. Today, I moved the topic to the top manually. Gamliel Fishkin (talk) 04:01, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) As I understand it (partly by checking the bot source
user_talk.edit(text=body_text_final, summary=subject_line, section='new', bot=1, skipmd5=True)
partly by what has been posted before, both here and at User talk:EdwardsBot, the bot uses the API query 'action=edit&section=new', which always creates a new section at the bottom of the page, just as if you had clicked the "New section" tab. The bot has no way of knowing that it shouldn't post by adding a new section. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:00, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Hi. This has come up previously. EdwardsBot won't support this feature until MediaWiki supports this feature. bugzilla:31919 is the relevant bug. --MZMcBride (talk) 14:43, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Polluted categories

Good to have BernsteinBot up and working again on the category DBR's, even if it does mean a whole lot of work for us! I've had a skim of Resource: Database reports/Polluted categories and I've not found one yet that actually is polluted. Maybe someone's fixed them all since Saturday, I'm guessing it's a bot glitch. I don't suppose you could have a look? Cheers.Le Deluge (talk) 18:33, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Join us this Sunday for the Great American Wiknic!

Wiknic logo.svg Great American Wiknic DC at Meridian Hill Park WikiNYC-picnic-ragesoss.jpg
You are invited to the Great American Wiknic DC at the James Buchanan Memorial at Meridian Hill Park. We would love to see you there, so sign up and bring something fun for the potluck! :)

Boilerplate message generously borrowed from Wikimedia NYC. To unsubscribe from future DC area event notifications, remove your name from this list.

Harej (talk) 15:50, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

This message contains a stray </div>. Also, the Wiknic has been postponed until Sunday, June 30 due to the weather. --MZMcBride (talk) 14:40, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Your assistance please

You deleted the redirect Ahmed Adnan Ahjam. Your entry in the deletion log says: "deleted page Ahmed Adnan Ahjam (csd r1)" I tried to trace the basename it pointed to and the {{afd}} the authorized its deletion. Could you help me by telling me where it pointed? Geo Swan (talk) 21:39, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

[5]. You created the redirect that pointed to the main article back in 2008, if you weren't aware. Hope that helps. Killiondude (talk) 03:26, 21 June 2013 (UTC)


Wikipedia talk:Editor engagement#Kvetchin'. I'd welcome your input. --Ori.livneh (talk) 05:26, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I commented over there. --MZMcBride (talk) 14:37, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

X!'s Edit Counter

I initiated an RfC about X!'s Edit Counter here. I understand you control EdwardsBot. Is it a global bot, or a local bot? I want to spread news of this RfC to garner participation. Please see the RfC for details.--cyberpower ChatOnline 13:16, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

EdwardsBot is both a global bot and a local bot. PiRSquared17 has already spammed nearly every wiki about that RFC using the global bot. --MZMcBride (talk) 14:39, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Uh, sorry? ?r2 (t o c) 02:01, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure if you're apologizing or asking for a clarification as to what I meant. If it's the latter, <>. If it's the former, don't worry about it. There's no good guidance in this area (i.e., when it's appropriate to notify every wiki about a proposed change). Though it'd be nice if there were. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:31, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
For the record: it was the former (it seemed reasonable at the time, but I wasn't 100% sure). Anyway, I have a question about GMD: would it be possible to add a language ("lang") argument to {{target}}? Currently, some people who spam translated messages use CONTENTLANG to determine the language. Instead, this could be done with some argument like $lang or %(lang)s, based on the {{target}} argument. The reason for using a separate argument would be that it always uses English on multilingual wikis, even for users who want it in their own (or potentially discussion pages in other languages, e.g. d:project:bistro). It could still assume that it's the content language if no argument is provided. Or maybe I'm overthinking this, and nobody really cares. :) ?r2 (t o c) 03:21, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
Hi. I don't think a "lang" template parameter for {{target}} is something I have any interest in coding or supporting. EdwardsBot basically copies and pastes whatever is on m:Global message delivery/Spam to each individual wiki. Some people have recently used a combination of {{CONTENTLANG}} and template substitution ("subst:") with a "#switch:", which then gets processed on each individual wiki. For EdwardsBot to be able to customize the content delivery on a per-user (as opposed to a per-wiki) basis, it would have to futz with the content from m:Global message delivery/Spam a bit (replacing {{CONTENTLANG}} with the value of the "lang" template parameter, as appropriate), which I'd really like to avoid.
Given that nearly all messages that are sent out are in English and given that I'd really like to see the entire system redone (preferably in a MediaWiki extension), it doesn't seem like a good use of resources for me to add this enhancement request. That said, I'd gladly accept a pull request (the code is here) and this type of feature is certainly something to consider in a rewritten tool. And as much as I've been dragging my feet on doing work on this script, if there's actual user demand for such a feature, I could be coaxed into adding it (much like I was coaxed into adding support for target subpages that use {{#time:}}). --MZMcBride (talk) 21:26, 9 July 2013 (UTC)


--Anas1712 (talk) 18:39, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
Success. --MZMcBride (talk) 19:33, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

VE Bugs and D-Day

Hi. Reviewing the feedback page for the VisualEditor, the amount of bugs opened in the last 48 hours is somewhat amusing given that they want to deploy it to everyone in a matter of days.

Am I searching/reading Bugzilla correctly? [6] Does that mean there are currently 289 bugs that are both confirmed and unfixed?

Also, I'm not sure why the feedback page has part of the title in italics...

Cheerio. Killiondude (talk) 19:52, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Part of the title was in italics because a template was transcluded, not linked. I've fixed it. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:26, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure about VE bug counts. Stats are hard.
I've told the VE team repeatedly to slow down a bit, but there's an underlying view that volunteer time isn't valuable and if new editors make a mess with VisualEditor, other editors will eventually clean up the various messes. It's somewhat true, of course, but it exposes a fairly awful part of Wikimedia Foundation culture, I think. It relates back to a view that Wikimedians are customers, not colleagues. Running experiments on users without consent or making a mess in articles is considered okay.
I think you'll enjoy this addition. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:40, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
P.S. Thanks for the fix, Redrose64.
Thank you, Redrose. I thought it was purposefully done.
MZ, it's disheartening to hear that they want the regulars to clean up after the newbies if and when VE makes a mess. I think if I were more presently invested in the project it would be more upsetting. The only thing that keeps me returning here is the fact that reading some of the dramaz makes me chuckle and I want people who use WP to see accurate info. I really dislike TheMovement(TM) and the WMF at this point and have for some time. But I think you know this.
What the crap is "strategic change management" and how one become a center of knowledge for it? Likewise, "fighting for content online" makes me cringe. I'm both amazed and upset that there is a person or are people who sit around thinking of these inane wordings. Killiondude (talk) 05:11, 1 July 2013 (UTC)


Thanks. I keep making mistakes with this because, for reasons clear only to past me, I send this out at midnight. Naturally enough, I'm not at my perkiest then. J Milburn (talk) 09:45, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Watcher tool count

I use your "Watcher" tool sometimes to find how many people are watching a page but the information most often returned is the vague "fewer than 30" watchers. Why does your tool not report that number if it is fewer? I used it just now because I often notice that after I edit smaller articles, there is a significant jump in views of the page that day or the next, as though the page is watched, or some people are quietly following my work! Fortunately, I am not paranoid.

Just now, I tried your "Stalker" tool and there is a heading in the results column, "First deleted edit". What is a deleted edit? I have seen mentions of those in another tool which counts an editor's edits. Thank you. -- O'Dea (talk) 16:47, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Regarding the first, the Page information link in the left margin (under "Toolbox") also states "Number of page watchers Fewer than 30 watchers" in such cases, so it's consistent. Users with admin rights can see the exact figure.
Regarding deleted edits: there are two ways that this might happen. The most common is when you have edited a page, and that page is subsequently deleted. Your edits then disappear from your contributions. The other way that an edit might be deleted is oversight, which is quite rare. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:50, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for the reply. Why is the data suppressed about the number of watchers if it is fewer than thirty? It seems arbitrary and daft on the face of it. Now that I know the data exists, I cannot imagine any reason why the figure should be hidden from general readers. -- O'Dea (talk) 19:30, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
There is a deliberate reason why it just says "fewer than 30", but I was not party to that decision. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:29, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Okay, well, my questions are really directed at MZMcBride. He might know as he had access to the data to create his watchers tool. -- O'Dea (talk) 20:16, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
User:MZMcBride/watcher. There were concerns about privacy and giving out target info to ne'er-do-wells. Killiondude (talk) 21:47, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
I do not understand this explanation. If it is known that an article has, say, 23 watchers, that figure does not identify anyone; or even if an article has only one watcher - the identity is not revealed by that figure, either. And if I watch an article, how is it a breach of my privacy for anyone to know I am watching it? All my actions are already a matter of public record from contribution history, so what does it matter? -- O'Dea (talk) 03:06, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
As I say, there is a deliberate reason, but it does not concern the identification of individuals. It concerns the level of attention that a page gets. If a page has many watchers, any damage that occurs (whether vandalism, libel or just plain newbie mistakes) is likely to be spotted quickly and fixed. The fewer the watchers, the less likely it is to be detected. An individual intent on causing damage that is likely to be left unfixed may wish to target those pages with the fewest watchers - ideally zero. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:12, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Hi. The rule was/is imposed by the Toolserver system administrators. I disagree with the rule (vandalism, libel, and other bad edits are commonly caught through Special:RecentChanges and pages with thirty inactive watchers are no better protected than pages with one active watcher), but the Toolserver admins are allowed to set policy like this.
The watcher tool is largely deprecated in favor of the core info action (example). The info action now includes a per-wiki configuration variable allowing the obfuscation threshold to be raised or lowered (I believe the German resource has reduced its threshold or plans to). The limit is particularly daft on sites with very few active contributors (most Wikimedia wikis), but it's easy to scare users with the fear of vandalism and BLP violations rather than simply exposing the data to all. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:48, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks to you both for the latest replies; now I understand why the threshold has been set at 30, although I disagree with the policy. I think the majority of articles have fewer than 30 watchers, so the Watcher tool is mostly neutered by that very high threshold, so it is largely ineffective as a result, which is a pity. I was unable to see how to adjust the info action "per-wiki configuration variable allowing the obfuscation threshold to be raised or lowered", but that is academic, anyway, since policy forbids the ordinary editor from peering inside the "fewer than 30" data. Thanks again. -- O'Dea (talk) 08:52, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
A per-wiki configuration variable is held in a file called LocalSettings.php, which can only be altered by a very few users with extremely high privileges - the system administrators (not to be confused with Wikipedia administrators, who have far fewer rights). Basically, if you can't get a shell prompt on the resource servers, you can't even read the LocalSettings.php file, let alone alter it. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:26, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

EdwardsBot blocked temporarily

Per Resource: Administrators' noticeboard/Archive250#URGENT, I have soft-blocked the bot for 3 hours in the hope that this is long enough to allow a fix to be found to the problem of the bot being given the wrong newsletter to deliver... Obviously, the bot can be unblocked by any admin once the issue is resolved. Thanks, BencherliteTalk 23:16, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Sorry MZMcBride. Totally my fault as I forgot to change the recipient paramater and didn't want the newsletter to be sent to over 200 people who don't need it. :( --Dom497 (talk) 23:26, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Deep sigh. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:50, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

EdwardsBot: syntax error

Hi, your bot EdwardsBot delivered some news about the enabling of the Universal Language Selector. Unfortunately, there was a syntax error: You forgot a closing small-tag. Hence, the subsequent section appear in smaller sricpt. I already fixed this error in german Wikipedia. Could you please let your bot run through the other projects to fix this error? Regards --Schniggendiller talk 13:20, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

This was not the fault of MZMcBride, nor of EdwardsBot. The fault lay in this edit which has a where there should have been a . I suggest you take it up with Guillom (talk · contribs) who made that edit. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:34, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
That is entirely my fault, and I apologize. I tested the text, unfortunately the error wasn't noticeable. I'm really, really sorry. guillom 13:47, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
This is now fixed. guillom 15:28, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
As we say in the MediaWiki development world, more like a syntax terror! Thanks for cleaning up after the bot. Let me know if you want to discuss a better system for these types of deliveries. It's becoming increasingly clear that using EdwardsBot is not a sustainable long-term solution. --MZMcBride (talk) 15:37, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
Echo/Notifications/Flow has been heralded as a solution to this problem, so in the long term it's probably what we'll end up using for many of the messages currently delivered by EdwardsBot. I don't know when that functionality will be available, however. In the meantime, I'm not sure it would make sense to spend too much time on an interim system (I'm not sure what that could look like either, frankly). If you have ideas, I'm happy to discuss them :) guillom 15:57, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
guillom, I have to admit that I forgot to check news in this thread in enWP :-( Sorry! And thank you for fixing it! Regards --Schniggendiller talk 19:08, 17 July 2013 (UTC)


Re:this. Seriously, I expect better from you. I don't accept gravedancing from anyone and if I see it again from you, you will be blocked. WormTT(talk) 14:58, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Who died? --MZMcBride (talk) 14:59, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
Hilarious. WormTT(talk) 15:00, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
I think my edit was pretty objectively funny and it certainly wasn't intended to be mean-spirited. He does both ragequit and call people assholes on a regular basis. It was closer to social commentary than an attack, but just as well. --MZMcBride (talk) 15:10, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
You repeated the gravedancing, despite having been reverted by WTT.
Have you been called "asshole" lately, on-Wiki or off? Do you think that ever happened to Pablo Picasso? What is the difference between you two? Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:21, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) I don't think dear Pablo would have minded being called an asshole... -- Hillbillyholiday talk 11:05, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Given that Eric is likely to be frustrated by the fact that he is blocked, making comments like that - where it is open to interpretation whether the comment is mean-spirited or in jest - is probably not a good idea. I appreciate your opinion on this, but I feel as if we should err on the side of caution. --(?) ?us?p 15:24, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
Both Mr. WormTT and Mr. Kiefer.Wolfowitz seem to have a very unusual definition of "gravedancing" (or more accurately dancing on someone's grave). Nobody died. And suggesting that a short block on the English resource is equivalent to death is surely fairly sick and distasteful. I'd recommend figuring out exactly what the hell it is the two of you are referring to before vaguely threatening blocks.
I don't believe I've been called an asshole by anyone lately. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for a number of my colleagues. :-) I'm not sure I understand the reference to Picasso; at this point, I'm more familiar with his lesser-known protégé.
Recognizing patterns of behavior is often a mechanism for addressing them. Malleus, much like many others, regularly threatens to leave, but then quickly returns. Is there harm in saying so? --MZMcBride (talk) 15:34, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
Morning MZMcBride. I apologise for not replying last night, though that is fortuitous for you as I would probably have blocked you. However, since things have calmed down, I thought instead I'd write to you and impress upon you the issues with your actions. First things first gravedancing, as I'm sure you know, is common wiki-parlance for "gloating over a significant block or retirement". Perhaps this search will help you spot the usage, and that's just in Resource: space. Whether or not your comments were accurate, placing them on Eric's talk page was insulting, uncivil and unacceptable. The harm was not so much what you said, but where you said it. As to your "comical" forgery of his signature, that is absolutely "forbidden" - not just discouraged - forbidden. WormTT(talk) 07:34, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
If you had blocked last night, it seems like it would be punitive rather than preventative since MZ didn't post there again after replying here (unless I'm missing something). Not to say that the original posting(s) were righteous. It is interesting, however, that users like Eric, Mallues, et al can seemingly say whatever the heck they want over a longer period of time while when MZ makes a couple of questionable comments he is threatened (more seriously) with a block. I do appreciate your work around, Wikipedia, Worm, and this latter point isn't to call you out specifically; lately I'm doing a bit more philosophizing about resource than usual. Killiondude (talk) 19:04, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
Nobody was gloating over a block or a retirement. It'd be especially difficult to attempt to gloat over a retirement as there was no retirement, of course. And significance has little to do with alleged grave-dancing. If you're going to use quotation marks, please provide a source for attribution. Otherwise I'll just assume you "made up the quote."
My edits were simply an observation of patterns of behavior (ragequitting + calling people an asshole). I would think Malleus, of all people, would appreciate identifying his behavior for what it is. With all due respect, it's really not your place to lecture me about user blocks: I've given out and received far more user blocks than you. :-) Thank you for not escalating the situation—it demonstrates a respectable level of wisdom and maturity on your part.
Regarding user signatures, I wouldn't put too much stock in Resource: Signatures. It's quickly headed toward obsolescence (probably within the next year). In some ways, it seems similarly hyperbolic to describe my edit as signature forgery as it is to describe it as grave-dancing. Outside of the wiki world, these terms have very real and significant definitions and implications. Please be careful with your words. You act as though someone was attempting to commit identity theft when it was really just a simple (and amusing!) joke. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:18, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
  • You left me something similar as well, and I didn't enjoy it. It was a bunch of shit anyway, since I wasn't "enraged"--I was sad, and still am, and I dropped my bit because of the words and actions of some now-former colleagues. Diva, pissy queen (is that what you said elsewhere?)--I could get all admin and say those are personal attacks, but apparently "asshole" is the only kind of personal attack that's frowned upon here. You also seem to have missed that I resigned my sysop status and didn't announce any kind of retirement (which I've never done anyway), so your comment showed you to be a very poor reader. But it's shitty commentary and personal accusations like that which will drive people away. And that's serious business. I am not sure that I've ever had negative interactions with you (though my faulty memory is a great blessing to me), and I've always considered you a top-notch editor endowed with plenty of common sense, which made it all the more surprising to see those disparaging sneers. Enjoy your barnstar and your righteousness. I'm going to log out and do other things. Drmies (talk) 14:58, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
    • Hi. I don't believe I called you a diva, I believe I admonished you for feeding a diva (which is what that essay is really about). It isn't about righteousness, it's about exercising restraint and maturity and choosing constructive courses of action over destructive courses of action. As I pointed out in my talk page post, just recently you were running for the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees, a position that requires insanely high levels of trust, restraint, maturity, and clue. I mention this as your recent behavior here has caused both supporters of your Board candidacy to reconsider their support and has caused opponents of your Board candidacy to quietly feel re-affirmed that you lack the necessary temperament.

      You're fortunate enough to be in a time and place in life that affords you the free time, capacity, and capability to contribute to "the greatest encyclopedia ever attempted." It's a wild and vast endeavor that needs as much help as it can get. So, no, I won't be joining in whatever pity party is collectively being thrown. I'll even admit that if you asked me to write out the full details of the past two weeks, I wouldn't be able to. Something about Malleus, you, Boing, the word "asshole," blocks, and de-adminnings. The first time it's exciting and fresh, the second time a little less so, but I've watched this episode a few dozen times now and I've grown tired of it. The details have stopped being important.

      Your colleagues put trust in you to serve as a level-headed admin here, which you do in a volunteer capacity, like nearly everyone else. But you shouldn't expect only notes of "how we'll miss you!" when you choose to toss off the privilege of being able to help out around here and hollowly and dramatically announce that you're going on vacation. You'll simply have to forgive me if I misinterpreted your talk page blanking and de-admin request as enraged diva-ry. What was I thinking.

      We're now a few more admins short (thanks for that) and the pile of work to do around here hasn't gotten any smaller. But maybe you feel a bit better now being unshackled from the tremendous weight that adminship and a 10,000-byte talk page carry. Or something.

      My hope is that perhaps, like an adult, you can express what's making you sad here and work to address it. In the meantime, do let me know who these "now-former colleagues" are (names, please); I call bullshit. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:45, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Barnstar of Humour Hires.png The Barnstar of Good Humor
I for one found it not only fair comment, but gently funny. If everyone could be a bit less serious business, everything would be far less dramatic around here. -- Scott o talk 21:26, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Jimbo's talk page

Hello, Everyone gets to define "wikibreak" as they see fit, and three edits in four days for a highly active editor is a perfectly acceptable definition. Everyone controls their talk page as they see fit, within narrow limits. Blanking, partial blanking and delegating others to blank is perfectly acceptable. You have many other venues available to discuss edits that Jimbo might occasionally make until July 21. Article talk pages are a good place to start. There is a whole list of other options on his talk page. Thank you. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 18:12, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi. Everyone most certainly gets to define wikibreak as they see fit, I completely agree.
However, nobody can continue to edit here while disallowing any editing on his or her own talk page. I don't know of any precedent for an admin attempting to turn off his or her own talk page while simultaneously actively editing here. It certainly seems to be against our values and principles, as discussed. (And I'd welcome any further examples of this type of activity, if you have them.)
Blanking or partially blanking one own's talk page is acceptable as it's seen as acknowledgement of receipt, of course. This is not relevant here, though. Please let me know if you have any further thoughts about this. For now, as long as Mr. Jimbo Wales isn't actively editing, there isn't an issue. If he continues to actively edit, the talk page notice will need to be removed. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:17, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps what we have here is a disagreement of the meaning of the word "disallow". As I see it, Jimbo gave several weeks notice of his sabbatical, and his request that people use other venues to discuss things during that time. He hasn't used any powers except persuasion to "disallow" it. A request is not a mandate. The matter was discussed and I told Jimbo that I would remove posts, and that I expected others would do the same. Carrite clearly feels the same way. If I was engaged in ongoing conversations with you, and you said "I am going to be busy with X for three weeks, so let's put this conversation on hold for three weeks", I would honor your request. Please extend the same respect to Jimbo. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 00:15, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
It isn't about notice. It's about actively editing here while having a restricted talk page. You should be able to see this. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:15, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

DC meetup & dinner on Saturday, July 13!

Please join Wikimedia DC for a social meetup and dinner at Vapiano (near Farragut North/Farragut West) on Saturday, July 13 at 6:00 PM. All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please see the meetup page. Hope to see you there! Kirill [talk] 00:31, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

I want your clothes, your boots, and your lists of unwatched BLPs..

Greetings! Just been reading your (no doubt totally accurate) biography at "æ", and I noticed you were interested in the BLP problem.

I've got a little project going, where I'm attempting to terminate tabloids. As I'm pretty much clueless when it comes to coding, and the resource search engine baffles me; the list of popular BLPs there has been compiled by hand. A way of quickly identifying the crappy sources throughout WP would be really handy, but anything you can do to help would be much appreciated. Cheers. Hillbillyholiday talk 18:38, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

EdwardsBot in Ruwiki

Strange characters appearing, and no subscription [7]. And Russian forums usually use "newer up" scheme, pls fix. Ignatus (talk) 18:49, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Hrm. Well, yes, that's a fucking mess, isn't it? :-)
Part of the issue is related to the Translate extension, it looks like (the "tvar" nonsense). Part of the issue is related to someone using <code>...</code> instead of <code><nowiki>...</nowiki></code>, it looks like.
Regarding "no subscription," unfortunately I'm not sure what you mean. Can you clarify?
The post order is a MediaWiki issue (cf. bugzilla:15494 and bugzilla:31919). --MZMcBride (talk) 18:56, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
I left a note for odder here. --MZMcBride (talk) 19:04, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
If you follow the Give feedback link in that message, you'll see that there are several posts on this problem. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:06, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
I'm sure. But I didn't fuck up the bot run (nor did EdwardsBot). There were typos in the global message that was sent out (note the misplaced <tvar> tags and missing <nowiki> tags there). I'm beginning to think it's time to initialize the access lists, though I'm not sure that will really solve the issues we're seeing. :-/ --MZMcBride (talk) 02:12, 9 July 2013 (UTC) Resource: List of Wikipedians by number of edits/1-1000 intermittently not updating

{{talkback|BernsteinBot| Resource: Database reports/Unused non-free files|ts=16:52, 9 July 2013 (UTC)}} Stefan2 (talk) 16:52, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Exciting thread, that. --MZMcBride (talk) 14:33, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

You're Invited: Luce and Lunder Edit-a-thon at the Smithsonian

SAAM facade.jpg
American Art Museum
Luce and Lunder Edit-a-thon at the
Smithsonian American Art Museum

You're invited to the Luce and Lunder Edit-a-thon, part of a series of edit-a-thons organized by the Smithsonian American Art Museum to add and expand articles about American art and artists on Wikipedia.

This event will include a catered lunch and special tours of the Luce Foundation Center for American Art and the Lunder Conservation Center at the Smithsonian American Art Museum.

9:15 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. on Friday, July 19, 2013
Smithsonian American Art Museum
Meet at G Street Lobby (9th St. & G St. NW, Washington, D.C.)

Capacity is limited, so please sign up today!

If you would not like to receive future messages about meetups, please remove your name from our distribution list.
Message delivered by Dominic·t 00:42, 12 July 2013 (UTC).
Luce Foundation Center for American Art 13.jpg
Luce Foundation Center
I'd really like to see us refrain from holding events on weekdays like this, particularly with such short notice. It's unreasonable to expect anyone but furloughed federal workers, students who happen to be around D.C. for the summer, and the elderly or unemployed to be able to attend these day-long events that occur during the standard workweek.
Also, while delivering this spam, you fucked up my talk page as well as a number of other talk pages. This is what you get for not using EdwardsBot. ;-) Be sure to clean up your mess. If only we had a complement to the "thank" link for me to formally admonish you with. xoxo --MZMcBride (talk) 01:33, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

User preferences

I noticed that you are the author of the script that reports user preferences. I was interested to note at Resource: VisualEditor/Feedback#Some performance notes that since VE was made the default for IP editors we have seen an 8.6% decline in anonymous editing and that 64% of new editors are using the source editor. I suspect, in keeping with the Law of Unintended Consequences, that there is a large contingent of editors that normally edit anonymously that created accounts simply in order to disable VE. Is it possible to mine that database to find out how many freshly created accounts are using the oldeditor gadget?—Kww(talk) 19:48, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Knock knock?—Kww(talk) 05:52, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
Who's there?
I assume you're referring to Resource: Database reports/User preferences. User preferences are considered private, of course. Anonymized data is available and can be published in aggregate, but in order to find out how many freshly created accounts are using the oldeditor gadget, you'd need to look at the non-anonymized data. Is this technically possible? Sure, but it requires having access to the underlying data, which only shell users have.
I suppose it's possible to file a ticket in Bugzilla requesting aggregate data about the age of accounts that have enabled this new gadget, but I have no idea if the request would be fulfilled. I know for sure that you'll never be able to get non-aggregated data, but you may be able to find a shell user willing to answer a specific question or two if you ask politely and can give a reasonable justification. Hope this helps. --MZMcBride (talk) 06:17, 22 July 2013 (UTC)


I miss you. kmccoy (talk) 07:57, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

I miss you more. <3 --MZMcBride (talk) 08:53, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

IP responsible for vandalism

Please immediately revert your deletion of User:, which has been used by Ironholds and which has been used for vandalism and harassment. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:40, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Er, MZMcBride does not have that ability; however, Ironholds does. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:32, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
Awkward. --MZMcBride (talk) 16:59, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
It was deleted by MZ in 2008, with the reasoning that the user blanked the page. MZ is not currently an admin, but none of what you've said seem relevant to a user-requested deletion in their own userpage. Should there be other reasons for requesting the undeletion, they do not appear clear to me at this time from your statement. Snowolf How can I help? 16:51, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
Striking the above as I misunderstood the grounds for the original deletion, but indeed it was deleted back in 2008 :) Snowolf How can I help? 17:37, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
Hi Kiefer. There's an ongoing Arbitration case between you and Mr. Ironholds. Even if I could undelete the page, I wouldn't get involved here. Any admin has my blessing to reverse this deletion (it was deleted under CSD U2: user pages of IPs are generally considered ownerless) or you can file a formal undeletion request, if you can't find a willing admin. --MZMcBride (talk) 16:59, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
P.S. That IP address has some equally ... interesting edits at Meta-Wiki.
And simplewiki. Snowolf How can I help? 17:27, 27 July 2013 (UTC)


What was this edit for? Now I can't move the page back.--Ryulong () 06:24, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Please see User talk:MZMcBride/Archive 36#bugzilla:42616, User talk:MZMcBride/Archive 36#Mystery edit and User talk:MZMcBride/Archive 36#bugzilla:42616 (2). --Redrose64 (talk) 11:00, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Well now I can't revert a page move and my technical request was turned by Anthony Appleyard into a full WP:RM discussion.--Ryulong () 20:19, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Probably quite wise on Anthony's part, given your tendency to edit war over article titles such as this. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 21:20, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Jaroslav ?erých (reaction to post by LaraBot)

Thanks for advice, I have added references and also extended the article little bit. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by Serych (talk o contribs) 15:54, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Wonderful, thank you! --MZMcBride (talk) 21:25, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Template:Signature listed at Redirects for discussion


An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Template:Signature. Since you had some involvement with the Template:Signature redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). Rezonansowy (talk o contribs) 04:17, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

VE testing strategy

We are colliding all over, and I just wanted to be clear that I think that VE can eventually be something that works well and satisfies a large group of editors. What I firmly believe to be wrong is to test software by relying on people using it by accident and out of ignorance.

As it stands, VE is so incomplete that it cannot address most articles. It can't edit tables, a feature common to most articles. It can't even cut-and-past text from one section of an article to another without losing formatting and references. There's no plan that I'm aware of to support cutting-and-pasting between articles. Add that to the hundreds of bugs in the features they did attempt to implement, and this version is clearly in the alpha or beta phase: worth testing, worth evaluating, but not something that we place in a position where unsuspecting new accounts and anonymous users wind up using it without warning.—Kww(talk) 20:25, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

I think we mostly agree. :-)
I've written about this topic (at a high level) at m:experiments and I've posted to both wikitech-l and wikimedia-l fairly extensively about not treating editors as lab rats or trying to trick them into certain new products/features/whatever. VisualEditor is one example, but there are many others.
What I'm seeing most clearly right now is that we need to:
  • kill that awful animation for section edit links;
  • better advertise that the software is beta software; and
  • make it easier to opt-in and opt-out out of the software (easier than even the checkbox in Special:Preferences).
These are what I listed at Resource: VisualEditor/Improvements.
These are all actionable items, though obviously there's disagreement about how to best implement them. Any help you can give in getting these items moving forward would be wonderful and really appreciated. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:33, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

VE comments

Hi! I saw your VE tagging comments to people on the RFC page. I think there is something wrong with that filter. I checked my contributions and it lists only ONE edit tagged with visualeditor and I have been using it whenever I could, when it didn't need editing navboxes and stuff. I even used it to test adding references (it's not flawless...), editing and adding/removing images, editing tables etc and none of this is showing up in this contribution filter. Kind regards Teemeah (letter) 08:56, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi Teemeah. I think you may have set &limit=1 in the URL. For a listing of your VisualEditor edits, check out this link. I'll adjust {{VE edits}} as well to no longer specify a limit. --MZMcBride (talk) 08:59, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
  • I think your repeated personal question could be regarded as badgering. I haven't scrutinised your editing habits recently, nor asked you to personalise a position you have taken; I don't personally approve of your doing so to those who have expressed an opinion on an RfC, but feel free of course to revert or modify any of my edits with which you have substantive issues. Yngvadottir (talk) 12:32, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
    • Wikipedians often mangle and manipulate all sorts of words, so I'm sure my edits could be regarded as many things. :-) As for a personal question, I'm not sure what you're referring to. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:59, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
  • I'll second that comment about badgering - I came here to ask MZMcBride to recuse him/herself from the Resource: VisualEditor/Default State RFC discussion. MZMcBride is repeatedly challenging people who support "op-in." I can see that many people have strong opinions about the VE. Of the 227 "op-in" comments MZMcBride has posted 37 queries that amount to challenges of that person's feelings. MZMcBride has zero comments for the the 26 who have felt "Opt-Out" is better. Please lay off and let people decide and comment. If they are deciding based on wrong information then that's a marketing issue for VE. Related to this is that I'm also not developing any further understanding of the issue from MZMcBride's comments. They are not moving WP forward. --Marc Kupper|talk 18:05, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
    • I don't think you have a good grasp of what badgering is. RFCs aren't simply votes. They're supposed to also be a discussion, though many people have decided to simply sign their name without elaborating on why they feel a particular way. This is a Bad Thing.

      When discussing VisualEditor, it can be pretty jarring to see people comment about how they don't like it or feel it's being forced upon them when they've apparently never saved a single edit here using VisualEditor. How does that work, exactly? They're being forced to use VisualEditor, except they're capable of regularly editing without using it? Perhaps these editors similarly have a poor grasp of the verb "force."

      If you're going to use "quotation marks," be sure to quote something: "op-in" doesn't make any sense and your repeated use of it makes you look quite silly in your remarks. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:59, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

  • Jarring or no, the proponents of VE - or more accurately those defending the way it was implemented - will have to accept the objections. And I disagree that those objections are not being articulated. There is a regrettable tendency on display daily at Village Pump (technical) to belittle the concerns of those who do not use informed technical jargon to characterise problems. However, this project runs on all our volunteer effort. And VE's target was supposedly the less technically analytical user. Fundamentally, though, personalisation is inappropriate, in my view (and together with the response above, implies you have not considered the objections people have taken the time to express). That was my point and I hope you have taken it on board. Yngvadottir (talk) 04:52, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
    • I think the objections will be accepted. Nobody thinks that the blame is one-sided here. Both the wiki communities and the VisualEditor team have acted very poorly throughout this process at times.

      I just finished writing up m:VisualEditor/Complaints to capture some of the recurring complaints I've been seeing about VisualEditor.

      It isn't about using technical jargon, it's about dialing down the rhetoric (probably on both sides). Some users have written abusive and hostile comments about VisualEditor, likely out of frustration. You can find examples at Resource: VisualEditor/Default State RFC, Wikipedia talk:VisualEditor/Default State RFC, and elsewhere. I understand that most power-users will not want to use VisualEditor. With somewhere around a million logged actions on Wikimedia wikis, I think I can safely call myself a power-user. I generally prefer wikitext editing. However, that doesn't mean that every objection being tossed out has merit or that every objector has grounds to speak. Many people are simply jumping on the bandwagon, so to speak, as VisualEditor is an easy target to hate. It's a mob mentality and it's a bit gross to watch unfold.

      The VisualEditor team, for its part, seems to have taken great pains to fuel the flames with very poor choices (as documented at m:VisualEditor/Complaints now). Some of these mistakes may ultimately be fatal. We'll see.

      A plague on both houses. Neither the editing communities (not just English Wikipedians, but also German Wikipedians and others) nor the VisualEditor team have acted perfectly here. Perhaps this is to be expected, though I would hope after over a decade, these types of large changes would be better managed and better received. Sigh. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:04, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

    • (edit conflict) The thing that caught my attention is you made personal comments about many people. Specifically, at least twenty times you pointed out that someone has zero, or very few, VE edits and used that as a basis to imply their opinion is invalid. I got a sense you are being overly defensive about the VE. That's why I suggested taking a break from that RFC. I have no problem with the "forced on them" comments. The default behavior for logged in users was that VE became the default for the [Edit] links. It was forced on everyone. They need not have saved any edits to discover that. I noticed that only one IP editor has contributed a comment to the RFC. IP editors have not had the VE forced on them and so it's understandable why they have not been jumping into the RFC discussion the way logged in editors have. As it is, 444 users have contributed to the discussion so far. While it's still a faction of the 129,081 active editors over 400 editors chiming in with thoughts seems excellent. --Marc Kupper|talk 06:45, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
      • In a discussion about about VisualEditor, whether someone has used VisualEditor seems directly relevant to understanding his or her perspective, I think. I politely asked users to clarify why they felt a certain way, particularly when many editors have never saved a single edit with VisualEditor here. For some of them, their clarifications reflected that they had tried to use VisualEditor and simply couldn't. For others, it became somewhat clear that they were simply opposing the software for the sake of opposing it. The questions and answers actually bring value to an RFC, unlike simply signing one's name and scurrying off (that's called voting).

        The VisualEditor experience for anonymous users is identical to that of logged-in users on the English Wikipedia, as I understand it. If you know otherwise, please share. Neither group is being forced to use VisualEditor and the suggestions to the contrary are simply dishonest. As pointed out repeatedly, users can simply click the "edit source" option at any time. There are likely other terms that are applicable to this user interface approach, but the claims that anyone is being "forced" to use VisualEditor are simply bullshit.

        As for the involvement of over 400 editors, I'm surprised it's not higher given the enormous exposure of the discussion (cf. MediaWiki:Sitenotice). I don't think there's much value being added in additional participation and as I wrote below, it seems to be slowly creating an ugly storm. Having just read Resource: VisualEditor/August 2013 update, it seems that the Wikimedia Foundation's position on making VisualEditor opt-in remains unchanged. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see what happens next. --MZMcBride (talk) 06:57, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

I've found it interesting to watch how what could have been a simple "oops, we'll take that back into the shop and work on it a while" has turned into a PR debacle, and how many users can't express a negative opinion intelligently.—Kww(talk) 05:28, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

I think it's a bit worse than a PR debacle. Community backlash to the VisualEditor team's handling of the deployment is severe and will likely have long-lasting repercussions, both for VisualEditor and for future large projects. There's a further erosion of trust between the editing community and the Wikimedia Foundation. And we're likely headed to a dangerous and incredibly uncomfortable area where on-wiki consensus dictates certain actions and the Wikimedia Foundation has to decide whether to follow those prescribed actions or ignore them (at a likely significant cost). --MZMcBride (talk) 05:46, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
I'm a normal editor and from my perspective, it does not look that bad. Most people don't carry grudges about computer glitches. --Marc Kupper|talk 06:58, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
I'd hardly call resource power-users "most people." ;-) --MZMcBride (talk) 06:59, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
I sincerely do not understand why you care about the feelings of the Wikimedia decision makers or the devs, here. Or even why you care about the future of this piece of software, to which WP:TNT aptly applies. Nor am I pleased to be tarred with brushes such as "metapedian" or even "power user" in this context. This is not a software experimentation platform, an exercise in social classification, or even a profit-making enterprise. It's a crowdsourced encyclopedia project. By implementing this in such a grotesquely incompetent and high-handed fashion, Wikimedia have earned the distrust of anyone who just wants to get on with writing and maintaining the encyclopedia. They've made it perfectly clear they have other fish to fry. Thank you for writing up yet another summary of what went wrong here, but as I responded to your unnecessarily personal question, the state of the VE feedback page the day before everyone was forced - yes, forced - to load this piece of junk (perhaps you forget the poor editors who managed to report that it crashed their machines, since no true off-switch was implemented, just a gadget that one had to hunt for, which still did not prevent this truly hideous piece of software from loading in the background? perhaps you simply forget that not everyone has a fancy computer or a good connection? Wikimedia either forgot or doesn't care because awwwwwww the poor devs worked hard producing this abomination) was replete with serious bugs, most of them with the answer "We won't be fixing that for a while" and which added up to it being not ready for use to build an encyclopedia. That thing we are supposed to be doing here. Respondents at an RfC do not owe you, Wikimedia, the poor, poor devs who were paid good money to do a job they did appallingly, or anyone else an answer to personal questions about the basis of their responses. We should all be grateful tehre are still any editors on this project, let alone editors willing to take the time to articulate yet again, in the face of continually being ignored and belittled, their concerns and yes, their suggestions for fixing this mess. If Wikimedia wants to attract and retain editors it should get out of the way of those who want to work on and protect the encyclopedia. Please feel free to quote me. Yngvadottir (talk) 16:10, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
You're speaking from what seems like a pretty angry place here. I understand and appreciate your frustration.
VisualEditor is a big project that didn't simply happen in a vacuum. The Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees (your Trustees) made it a top priority, which is part of the reason that the Wikimedia Foundation made it a top priority. Faced with a growing concern about editor retention and the ability of anyone to be able to participate in the creation of the sum of all human knowledge, a new endeavor was undertaken to make editing easier for most users.
The inability of many users to be able to contribute to the encyclopedia (or the dictionary or the quote book or the ...) made this project a necessity. While wikimarkup built resource and its sister projects, there's a pretty prevalent view that wikimarkup alone cannot sustain it. In 2013, there's an expectation on the part of users that there will be some kind of visual editor (e.g., similar to that of WordPress), and so the VisualEditor project was started in order to bring in such an editor, side-by-side with the source editor.
Have mistakes been made? Absolutely. Removing the user preference was a mistake. Pushing forward at a rapid pace with arbitrary deadlines was a mistake. The section-edit animation was a mistake. &c.
I got asked a similar question elsewhere ("why are you such an ardent defender of the Wikimedia Foundation devs?"). I honestly don't think I am. I'm defending common sense. We need a visual editor and an active group of people are trying to develop one (however haphazardly). Rather than simply attack and banish them, I think we should instead focus on ways to make it better or make it easier to get it out of the way of those who don't want to use it or can't use it.
I do probably have a different perspective than most editors here as I work more closely with the developers (both on VisualEditor and on many other projects). I've seen the thousands of hours they've put in so far and the tens of thousands of hours they have ahead. Creating VisualEditor is no easy task even on modern hardware. It becomes substantially more difficult when trying to support every operating system and Web browser that Wikimedians use, each with their own quirks and bugs. Does that it make it acceptable for VisualEditor to crash anyone's browser? Of course not. Those kinds of bugs are the highest priority. But I would never call the work that's been done on VisualEditor appalling. There's a lot of bad software in the world and VisualEditor certainly has a lot of bugs still, but at least (on my modern machine) it works. And for many other editors (as we see in Special:RecentChanges), it works for them too. Hundreds of people are making good edits with VisualEditor every day and with any luck, that number will only grow as VisualEditor's performance improves and stabilizes.
Prior to that RFC even existing, I blasted the VisualEditor team for the removal of the user preference to completely disable VisualEditor and it was eventually restored. Now that VisualEditor can be completely disabled, there's a page at Resource: VisualEditor/Improvements that tries to focus on actionable improvements that can be made to the software. (And, not that anybody is paying attention and not that I can take credit, but following a clearer articulation of the highest-priority issues being faced by the editing community both on this talk page and on that subpage, we've already seen some efforts made to make things better: Resource: VisualEditor/August 2013 update. That awful section-edit animation is dead. The user interface is more consistent between namespaces. The beta warning is more prominent.)
VisualEditor is still beta and it is nowhere near perfect (and never will be perfect, unfortunately). However, what I'm struck by most in your reply here (besides the worrying levels of anger and frustration) is your use of "Wikimedia" rather than "the Wikimedia Foundation." You and I are Wikimedia. James Forrester and Erik Möller are Wikimedia. Everyone participating in that RFC and on this talk page are Wikimedia. Wikimedia is a shared partnership between a non-profit foundation and a global community (editing and non-editing). Many times the Wikimedia Foundation disagrees with the editing community and many times the editing community (vehemently) disagrees with the Wikimedia Foundation. But the two have proved to be somewhat necessary in order to build and sustain Wikimedia.
This will likely come off as dickish, but I'll say it anyway: Marc's point above was that things weren't so bad and that people wouldn't hold grudges. Your response, as a local administrator in good standing, was to vent about the gadgets fiasco and other issues that have, for now, been resolved. Will people hold grudges over the poor deployment of VisualEditor? You bet your ass they will. Rightly or wrongly, justly or unjustly. We can only hope that eventually many users find forgiveness.
Whether you still want to talk after this or not, I do want to say thank you for all of your posts here and elsewhere. And I mean it. I appreciate you not only taking the time to make them, but also getting us (Wikimedia) closer to a better articulation of the frustration that users are feeling/facing during the development and deployment of VisualEditor. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:59, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
Gosh, I wonder why I would be angry? As opposed to "jarred" because people will not genuflect while meekly holding out correctly filled in bug reports and tugging their forelocks? They made me an admin (see my RfA - it was an unusual one), so I regard it as my duty to stick my neck out in defence of the encyclopedia. No, I am not the Wikimedia Foundation. The Wikimedia Foundation is a bloated bureacracy that feeds on resource and to a lesser extent the other projects. Our hard work in a noble cause pays their salaries, because it persuades people to donate money to keep the servers running. Instead like any bureaucracy they siphon off the money. (They couldn't even throw a bone to the Toolserver.) I had hoped against hope that this time, for the first time, the Foundation would not muck up the implementation. It was blatantly obvious that the devs had done a lousy job - the feedback from the true beta test was horrendous to read, and I saw "We're shooting for July". Then it went live on July 2 - as the default. The result was an entirely predictable catastrophe and I will not forgive anyone involved. This has hurt the encyclopedia. It's also hurt the editing community. Who knows how many people have simply stopped trying to edit (we have a significant trickle of evidence that it has prevented people from making edits; once again, remember that your computer and your connection are not indicative of the circumstances others face), and yes, the damage is very real in terms of trust. I am almost ready to be blocked for incivility because this has been the last straw for me. The responses to people's complaints and bug reports were contemptuous. We do not work for Wikimedia Foundation, and I am two degrees of separation from a host of programmers who could have done a better job. Unless you have internalized a model where we are beholden to the Foundation, this makes the Foundation dangerous to the encyclopedia. Flow, when it is in turn imposed, will probably be the end of my adminship if I'm even still editing here; truly I wonder whether those fools at Wikimedia even realize resource is the golden goose that produces all those lovely gold donations. But enough about me. Grilling people at an RfC because you think it's so important to push ahead with this failed implementation, rather than helping to nuke it and replace it with a properly developed and tested one, that you would be so rude to people makes it clear we don't share the same fundamental assumptions, even without the politics. I have a stack of articles I wanted and needed to work on (to illustrate "need", an incomplete transformation of a bad translation into meaningful English) but I'm seriously depressed about whether it's worth it. After all I'm just a "metapedian", the proof being that they made me an admin ... we who actually write and maintain this encyclopedia can't win, Wikimedia doesn't give two cents for the encyclopedia. Not even for the new editors who were their excuse for rushing this through, and who are demonstrating that no, actually, this implementation is not easier to use. They have made it very, very clear that their priorities lie elsewhere. I would be derelict in my duty as an admin if I ever trusted them again. Yngvadottir (talk) 19:13, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Matt (Matt, right?), please don't take this as any kind of "warning", just an attempt to help: please stop making comments in the VE RfC. This is how I frame the problem, I'm not sure if anyone else frames it the same way: there's been a growing awareness and expectation for over 200 years that citizenship implies some kind of right to vote ... even if just occasionally, even if just on some things and not on others. A recurring problem on resource is that many intuit some sense of citizenship, but feel that their "votes" (when they're brave enough to speak up) are negated. It's probably a bad idea to be the guy who's looking at a wall of "yes" votes and saying things that may be interpreted by some of the voters that their votes don't, or shouldn't, count. I'm not talking about the merits of anything you're saying, of course, I'm talking about a big problem with how resource functions (and doesn't) that we haven't solved, or really even articulated, yet, and that people are very frustrated about. - Dank (push to talk) 16:44, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Who's Matt? --MZMcBride (talk) 17:17, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
Oops. - Dank (push to talk) 17:32, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
I think concepts of citizenship and voting are much older than 200 years. ;-)
Wikimedia occasionally holds votes (for example, for members of the Wikimedia Foundation of Board of Trustees). But Wikimedia also has old, established principles that (often) voting is evil and, more specifically, Wikipedia is not a democracy or an exercise in political government. So we have to weigh these (sometimes competing) ideas when deciding whether to politely ask users to clarify their comments in a discussion about a piece of software. --MZMcBride (talk) 18:08, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
  • I noticed you suggest users having 0 VE edits to elaborate on the issues they're having with VE. I think you're approaching only the particular group of users (between people disliking VE) with the lower anger-level. I was astonished to see how WMF ignored the whole resource community. ^musaz + 20:07, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
    • Hi ^musaz. Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. The Wikimedia Foundation ignored what?

      Broadly, there is precedent for the Wikimedia Foundation ignoring community consensus in the face of requests that violate (larger) core principles. As we even document locally at WP:CONEXCEPT, local community consensus only holds so much power. However, in this case, while the RFC is still underway/ongoing, I'm not sure who or what is being ignored. Can you clarify? --MZMcBride (talk) 20:13, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

      • If WMF had agreed whit community on the launch of VE, i suppose this page should'nt exist. ^musaz + 22:52, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
  • User:MZMcBride, as you may or may not be aware, RFCs are meant to be read. As you may or may not be aware, people actually read them, in order to understand the issue at hand. As you may or may not be aware, they sometimes become long and involved, but still, LOTS of people attempt to slog through them. As you may or may not be aware, very few people enjoy reading boilerplate text over and over again. As you may or may not be aware, it often annoys people to no fracking end. As you may or may not be aware, after trying to catch up on the RFC in question, I currently have a strong desire to strangle you -- a feeling I do not recall having had even once during the nine years I have been editing Wikipedia. Please refrain from repetitive boilerplate text; it's extremely annoying, and, as you may or may not have gathered from the responses herein, it can be mistaken as all sorts of things, few of them being 'a sincere attempt to communicate'. Thanks for all your contributions to WP, but suggest you avoid such repetition in the future. You points and point of view appear quite reasoned and valid; they become lost in annoyance generated by nothing more than a misguided approach. Eaglizard (talk) 03:00, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
    • Hi Eaglizard. As you may or may not be aware, each edit made with VisualEditor (VE) is tagged. According to a search of your edits, it looks like you currently have two VisualEditor edits. ;-)

      It's interesting that upon attempting to read that mess of an RFC, this is your great takeaway. That RFC has many examples of some of the worst aspects of Wikipedia; I assure you my polite comments are not among them. Thanks for your feedback, in any case. In the future, I suppose we'll just leave RFCs to be mindless hand-raising activities with little to no discussion about the actual underlying issues and how to best address them. That seems like a much better use of everyone's time and energy. And we'll simply forget that my gentle prodding actually resulted in quite a few healthy discussions, both on this talk page and on that RFC. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:19, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

      • I'm sorry, you have misunderstood me. I am not in any way suggesting you should not participate in RFCs! I am only criticizing your decision to format your points using repetitive boilerplate language; language which clearly gave several editors the feeling of being somehow targeted or investigated. Doing so obscured your points to many of those editors. Nothing about my comment herein implies that your contributions were not both welcome and useful. Its obvious you are working hard to contribute usefully to the VE project; again, I thank you for your efforts. I only raise this suggestion because I think it may make you a more effective communicator. (My reference to strangling you was meant to be humorous, which I thought would be evident from my complete inability to physically harm anyone via this virtual medium.) To repeat: I was only trying to get you to see that your decision to repeat the same badly-chosen phrase over and over again works against the useful goals you are trying to achieve. I apologize for any offense, as I have no desire to be one of the many uselessly offensive editors that seem to abound on WP these days. (NB: I believe in the goals of the VE project, as I noted in my RFC response; my lack of edits is due to my slightly aging machine (dual AM64/3GB/WinXP) locking up every other time I tried it, forcing me to end-task on FF, and even power-cycle my machine once. These are the only reasons I rated it 'not ready for primetime.) (It was also not my only "takeaway" from the RFC by any means; in fact, my comment here is not actually related to the RFC at all). Eaglizard (talk) 05:59, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

I think you need a hug. Please find the nearest person and do so. A pillow can also suffice. Killiondude (talk) 06:56, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Wikidata database reports

Hello. I contribute to the Arabic resource and wiki data, and when I became contribute to wiki data Liked unused List Categories bot-induced, but I object to contain the lists:

  1. Categories Maintenance
  2. Categories Rdirect. Please delete these erroneous classifications to create new pages in wiki data ? ? ? 2 (talk) 08:55, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Hi. As best I can tell, you're referring to Wikidata database reports. The relevant code is here, as I understand it: <>. Patches and pull requests welcome! If you can't submit a patch or pull request yourself, ping Legoktm. He can probably help you. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

DC meetup & dinner on Saturday, August 24!

Please join Wikimedia DC for a social meetup and dinner at Vapiano (near Farragut North/Farragut West) on Saturday, August 24 at 6:00 PM. All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please see the meetup page. Hope to see you there! Kirill [talk] 04:11, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I won't be able to make this one. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

A cupcake for you!

Crumbs saucer fork.jpg Did anyone even miss me!!?

Also, I found something else shiny. ;) Theo10011 (talk) 01:50, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

You're difficult to miss.
What did you find? --MZMcBride (talk) 03:36, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
Now, you're just being mean! I even brought a cupcake for you!!! <3
I was looking for that magic 8-ball thing that used to be on your userpage, or maybe killion's? Any idea where it's around? Thanks. Theo10011 (talk) 07:58, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
wp:8BALL -- get it together. <3 Killiondude (talk) 14:42, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
Thanks KD! I do need to get it together. BTW you folks noticed that lately a lot of people have been using @<whoever> on wiki, to answer someone in a crowded discussion. I don't know if that's all from twitter or some new cultural idiom being established. It's like there wasn't a way to refer to someone before twitter showed them how. Bah, twitterverse impinging upon the hallowed wikiverse. Anyway, its bugging the hell out of me lately. Also, Hi. Theo10011 (talk) 22:52, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
T: It should give you a(n Echo) notification. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:26, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
M: I think you meant WP:Notifications? Legoktm (talk) 06:28, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
L: Yes, WP:ECHO and WP:Echo currently point to different places. I'm working on it. --MZMcBride (talk) 12:17, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
Ugh figures. It had to be something designed by Jorm et al. Anyway, revolutionary shit man, all important problems fixed! ('@' stuff seems to have started before echo IMO, but anyway, original.) Meh. Anything else new around? Theo10011 (talk) 19:14, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
! --MZMcBride (talk) 19:32, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
[Tiredly traipsing round after db to apologize as usual.] Sorry. Incidentally, do you ever archive this page? Like, ever? Bishonen | talk 19:38, 9 September 2013 (UTC).
I try! It's below 300,000 bytes at the moment, at least!
My methodology involves archiving in large blocks, but I also try not to archive unresolved threads. That thread way up there from February 2013 is currently blocking archiving. I need to reply and then wait a few days before I can archive another swath of noise. It's a very slow process, but fortunately there's no deadline. Plus, with The Fat Man Who Never Came Back indefinitely blocked, someone has to have an excessively long (active) talk page. I'm making this sacrifice for you, Bish. For you and for Wikipedia. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:12, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
He suffers for the rest of us......sob...Is that not enough!? (starts weeping uncontrollably) You go girl! Theo10011 (talk) 21:56, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Question re Database Reports

Hi. I am a relatively new editor to resource and I am trying to learn more about the inner workings of Wikipedia. I stumbled onto this page 1. Can you tell me what it is about? How do you create these kids of databases and where does the raw data come from? Thanks. --BuzyBody (talk) 01:58, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi. I'm not sure what you stumbled onto. The article 1? :-)
Database reports previously used the Toolserver, a shared hosting platform that contains replicated read-only copies of the databases of Wikimedia wikis. For example, the English Wikipedia's database ("enwiki") is exposed to users on the Toolserver via a MySQL view ("enwiki_p").
The Toolserver is now dying, so users have switched to Wikimedia Labs, which is a very similar shared hosting environment that also contains replicated databases.
The database reports code is available here: <>.
Hope that helps. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:39, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi. Your answer definitely helps. Sorry I did not get the link correct. The page I was looking at is Resource: Database reports. Thanks. --BuzyBody (talk) 14:46, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Greetings MZM, I hope you don't mind but since this is a somewhat related question I thought adding a subsectionhere would be easiest. I notice that some of the reports under database reports are showing things for talk page archives. Specifically, Resource: Database reports/Transclusions of deleted templates/1? has a lot of deleted templates that appear on talk page archives. I am hesitant to remove redlinked templates from archives like this and I don't think anyone else would either. I just wanted to recommend potentially removing talk page archives from generating on that report. Would that be possible? Kumioko (talk)

User groups not populating properly at Resource: List of Wikipedians by number of edits

{{talkback|Wikipedia talk:List of Wikipedians by number of edits|User groups not populating properly?|ts=03:31, 13 August 2013 (UTC)}} If you could please provide guidance on this issue, it would be greatly appreciated! Jackson Peebles (talk) 03:31, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Sure, replied here. --MZMcBride (talk) 14:28, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Are you free on Wednesday? Join us at the Wikimedia DC WikiSalon!

Wikimedia DC invites you to join us for our next DC WikiSalon, which will be held on the evening of Wednesday, August 24 at our K Street office.

The WikiSalon an informal gathering of Wikimedia enthusiasts, who come together to discuss the Wikimedia projects and collaboratively edit. There's no set agenda, and guests are welcome to recommend articles for the group to edit or edit on their own. Light refreshments will be provided.

We look forward to seeing you there! Kirill [talk] 11:47, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

DBR not updating Resource: Database reports/Unused non-free files hasnt updated in a few days. Werieth (talk) 15:02, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Eep. Unused non-free files (configuration) looks better now ("data as of 03:00, 26 August 2013 (UTC)"). Thanks for the note. Presumably someone is getting e-mailed when these reports fail, but I don't think any such e-mails are reaching me. Hmmm. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:59, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Meet up with local Wikipedians on September 14!

Are you free on Saturday, September 14? If so, please join Wikimedia DC and local Wikipedians for a social meetup and dinner at Vapiano (near Farragut North/Farragut West) at 6:00 PM. All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages are welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please visit the meetup page. Hope to see you there! Kirill [talk] 19:05, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Another page not being updated: Resource: Database_reports/Long_pages

BernsteinBot hasn't updated Resource: Database_reports/Long_pages for a month (history).
--WWoods (talk) 19:08, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Shhh, don't tell anyone, but I don't really maintain database reports any longer.
Tim.landscheidt, I'm doing the following:
local-dbreps@tools-login:~$ crontab -l | grep long
0 15 * * 5 jsub -once -j y -mem 280m -N enwiki.longstubs -o ~/var/log -quiet ~/bin/dbreps -r enwiki.longstubs -s enwiki
I don't see longpages set up... any idea what's up? It should be a fairly fast query given page.page_len. --MZMcBride (talk) 01:39, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Are you free Thursday, September 5? Join us at the Wikimedia DC WikiSalon!

Wikimedia DC invites you to join us for our next WikiSalon, which will be held from 7 to 9 PM on Thursday, September 5 at our K Street office.

The WikiSalon is an informal gathering of Wikimedia enthusiasts, who come together to discuss the Wikimedia projects and collaboratively edit. There's no set agenda, and guests are welcome to recommend articles for the group to edit or edit on their own. Light refreshments will be provided.

We look forward to seeing you there! Kirill [talk] 15:04, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Where's the best place?

Per this, I thought you might be interested to know WP:WMF now exists. You might particularly want to edit the portion that says " Resource: Bug reports and feature requests, for info about how MediaWiki software updates can be requested" in the See also section. I probably left a poor summary. Also, what's the best place to go for someone who doesn't know much about software to throw out an idea about a potential software development opportunity for the English Wikipedia? Would you say WP:VPT? That seems to be a better place for fixing problems within existing structures, in my limited experience. Or would it be WP:VPI? Best. Biosthmors (talk) 10:39, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Meanwhile, I did post this idea a while back, but I would need to find someone who is interested in coding. And the founder of wikiHow told me "let me know if you get approved. We can show you where the code is in the SVN so you can fork it to Wikipedia." Any recommendations on how to proceed? Best. Biosthmors (talk) 14:12, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

In case you think it has promise for benefiting the project, I posted about the idea it at WP:VPI. Best. Biosthmors (talk) 12:29, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Grant requested

So (feel free to remove these words inside the parentheses and the level 3 section heading if you wish) I've asked the WMF for $8,000 USD for coding something, err.... ummm.... without knowing who will code it. And $1,000 USD to myself (for now) for managing. I would have to write reports and such, during the 6 month period. I'm also able to ask for 20% more after the first 6 months for a subsequent 6 month period, I think, if needed. The evaluation period for the committee has begun, and the grant is at m:Grants:IEG/A redesigned WikiProject Medicine page--and inventory pages for all?. The schedule is as follows: Committee review: 23 Oct - 24 Nov Grantees announced: 16 Dec. Do you have any recommendations about how I would proceed or who I would ask to code this? And I don't mind sharing the $1,000, management fee, since I'm so ignorant. And maybe it's possible I could add someone else as a co-manager. You know oodles about the tech stuff around this place, so I figured I'd ask you, before random people just try to take shots at the idea without being productive. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 14:42, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Well I'm going to kick this one out to the Idea Lab for further development. Maybe you could fact-check my user page, at least? Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 14:11, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
Hi Biosthmors. I saw your e-mail pointing to your user page, but at the time that I clicked, it looked something like this and it was difficult to figure out what you were trying to highlight.
The current version of your user page really isn't much better. Your user page gives the appearance that you're attempting to use resource as your personal soapbox. Your past endeavors (including WP:WMF) seem to be executed in good faith, but are completely misplaced and misguided.
You're asking for an audience without having sufficient reputation, trust, or clout to be in a position to legitimately and reasonably ask that anyone listen to you. Broadly, my suggestion is for you to use Meta-Wiki for meta-wiki matters. Though regardless of location, your writing needs to be less incoherent and rambling. It's nearly impossible to discern any points you're trying to make when you simply babble about Alexa rankings and the lack of the term "politicoeconomic" or whatever else seems to have caught your attention today.
The Wikimedia Foundation has real problems that need to be addressed, including a lack of a proper analytics infrastructure, but you're currently adding far more noise than signal. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:38, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. I'll work on it further, and please let me know if you have any recommended reading. And might you be able to pick anything out that you agree with out of all the noise? Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 20:49, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
Reworded. Thanks for your feedback so that I could reduce the noise. I agree it was messy. Sorry about that. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 09:11, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
Further revised, FYI. Let me know if it's starting to look like I'm not misguided. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 16:14, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
And the use of the word misguided above reminded me of this article. So if you'd like to help identify what is misguided about my user page, since it has undergone significant revision, then I'm all ears. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 09:13, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Article Feedback Tool update

Hey MZMcBride. I'm contacting you because you're involved in the Article Feedback Tool in some way, either as a previous newsletter recipient or as an active user of the system. As you might have heard, a user recently anonymously disabled the feedback tool on 2,000 pages. We were unable to track or prevent this due to the lack of logging feature in AFT5. We're deeply sorry for this, as we know that quite a few users found the software very useful, and were using it on their articles.

We've now re-released the software, with the addition of a logging feature and restrictions on the ability to disable. Obviously, we're not going to automatically re-enable it on each article--we don't want to create a situation where it was enabled by users who have now moved on, and feedback would sit there unattended--but if you're interested in enabling it for your articles, it's pretty simple to do. Just go to the article you want to enable it on, click the "request feedback" link in the toolbox in the sidebar, and AFT5 will be enabled for that article.

Again, we're very sorry about this issue; hopefully it'll be smooth sailing after this :). If you have any questions, just drop them at the talkpage. Thanks! Okeyes (WMF) 21:53, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Heh, "obviously."
Even though I can't really say I appreciated being spammed with this noise, I do appreciate that AFTv5's lack of anti-abuse features (or rather, it's lack of transparency/accountability features) was called out in your message.
Next time, you really ought to send the message yourself. :-) I ended up chastising poor Whatamidoing (WMF) instead over the delivery problems. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:32, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Biography pages without talk pages

I was recently trying (and failing) to find a place where I recently asked about having a regular query run to list biography pages (typically those with birth years or some other obvious characteristic) that don't have talk pages, so someone can create talk pages with {{WPBiography}} on them (with parameters filled in). I think someone used to do this, but not sure if it is done now. I'm asking because I fairly often come across biography articles without talk pages, and in various states of disrepair. I'm asking you because per this you might know how to do this, and you might even be able to find where I asked this before... While I'm on the subject, are there reports that flag up potential articles on living people that haven't been marked as such? Carcharoth (talk) 00:10, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi C. WP:DBR#BLP are the BLP-related database reports (there are some for dead people as well).
Check out LaraBot's contributions. I think the bot tags new bios as they come in (based on a request from xeno, as I recall). So we should have fairly good talk page coverage, though I haven't actually checked.
The database reports (particularly the "potential" reports) should at least get you started. If you find that there's something that you really want/need, let me know and I can poke at it. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:27, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. That will be helpful. About the other stuff, what I probably need to do is follow the WikiProject:Biography feed of new articles, if there is one (I'll be able to find that). It is just mildly frustrating to see biography stubs created with some of the basic stuff not done, that is in theory quite easy to do, but tedious at times as the checklist you can follow when creating a biographical article is rather long (to be fair, there is stuff that I don't bother with as well, so I'm not really one to talk). It's that old conundrum, stick talk page templates on 100 stubs, or expand the actual content of one stub, or write a long talk page comment on someone's user page... :-) Carcharoth (talk) 00:40, 4 September 2013 (UTC) Resource: Database reports/Orphaned talk pages

Hi MZMcBride. The above database report has not been generated since February. It's a task that was done by BernsteinBot. A few of us suspect there's quite a few orphaned talk pages out there, so I wonder if there's any way you could generate the report so we can see where we are at? Thanks for any help you can offer in this regard. -- Diannaa (talk) 23:19, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Happy to see that this report is back in action. Unfortunately, there was a typo in the run as the bot used "susbt" instead of "subst". I fixed it in the report. I defer to others to do the 3,000+ deletions as I'm way too tired right now. But I am glad to see this report is back. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 05:21, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
Hi Diannaa and Gogo Dodo.
No update since February 2013? That's depressing.
Thank you for the note here. I hacked at the report a bit (it's now running on Wikimedia Labs instead of the Toolserver). I had to futz with the script for a few minutes before it would even run. It looks like it was finally able to run and finish (in about 27 minutes). Yay!
I'll fix the "subst" typo now. This report is not really "fixed" as there will only be manual updates for the moment, but it shouldn't be too difficult to get it automated again if someone can find the time and inclination. Volunteers welcome. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 05:32, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, obviously there's no rush to do an update, as it will take a while to get these items examined and deleted. Thank you very much. -- Diannaa (talk) 13:19, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Something odd happened with the latest run. The list of mostly non-orphaned talk pages. Is the bad database dump problem back again? -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 05:20, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

The terrifying part is that I didn't update that report. As far as I'm aware, that report is disabled and is only updated manually. I don't know which host that report ran on and I don't know who told it to run. Perhaps it's time to change BernsteinBot's password. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 13:18, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
Okay, I may have found it. Running "cronie -l" as "dbreps" on reveals that a lot of reports are still being run from the Toolserver (who knew!). I thought they'd all been moved to Labs, but apparently not. This has become a real mess. I think database reports now exist on three or four different hosts under two or three different usernames. Ugh. I'm re-running manually now (on Labs), so you should have better data in about twenty-five minutes. --MZMcBride (talk) 13:23, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
That's interesting because that report had not been updating on schedule since February so the cron on clematis just started up again all of a sudden. Thanks for the update! -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 04:24, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
Special:Permalink/573013364 is the full crontab on clematis for dbreps. The Toolserver (and now Labs, I believe) require that a job manager be used. I think the report grew so large that it exceeded its job limits (in terms of run-time or memory usage or something). That's one possibility, at least. Another several possibilities involve general Toolserver stability issues (host is down, host fills up with queued jobs that are never executed, host can't reach other hosts, etc.). With the Toolserver, it really could be anything. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 13:00, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
What a mess. :-) Nothing like bots competing with itself. Any progress on getting the Labs copy to run automatically or you still looking for help? I'd help, but I really don't know much about the Labs/Toolserver/database things. It is all just a black box to me. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 05:26, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Did the bot run out of the old cron again? The update from a couple of days ago wasn't correct again. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 02:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Probably. I don't imagine anyone has disabled it. I'm re-running the report from Labs so you should have better data in about 30 minutes. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:51, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. I'll look later. I was in the mood to delete a bunch of pages, but now I'm not. =) Maybe you were right about time to change the bot's password? -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 03:56, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Wish list

Hi MZMcBride,

I want a list of articles containing tables that end with this:


This is invisible to Special:Search. Is this something that could be found some other way? (If it turns out to be thousands of articles, then maybe an approximate count would be more useful than a list.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:43, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi WhatamIdoing.
This took a few hours total, but fortunately most of that time was spent waiting, not coding. It took about 33 minutes to download enwiki-20130904-pages-meta-current.xml.bz2 (about 18.5 GB), it took maybe half an hour to write/test the script, and about 122 minutes for the script to run.
Here's the script I wrote (called ""):
#! /usr/bin/env python
# Public domain; MZMcBride; 2013

import bz2

title = ''
m_text = []
loop = False

file = bz2.BZ2File('/home/mzmcbride/dumps'+
                   '/enwiki-20130904-pages-meta-current.xml.bz2', 'r')
log = open('log.txt', 'w')

for line in file:
    if line.startswith('    <title>'):
        title = line.strip
        title = title.replace('<title>', '')
        title = title.replace('</title>', '')
    if loop:
        if line.find('</text>') == -1:
            loop = True
        elif line.find('</text>') != -1:
            loop = False
            line = line.replace('</text>\n', '')
            final_text = ''.join(m_text)
            if final_text.find('|-\n|}') != -1:
            m_text = []
    if (line.startswith('      <text xml:space="preserve">') and
        line.find('</text>') != -1):
        text = line.strip
        text = text.replace('<text xml:space="preserve">', '')
        text = text.replace('</text>', '')
    elif line.startswith('      <text xml:space="preserve">'):
        line = line.strip
        line = line.replace('<text xml:space="preserve">', '')
        loop = True

As you can see, this writes the results to a file called "log.txt". I didn't really have the time or patience to filter the results to only articles, but you can, if you'd like. The total log output is 437,024 page titles. If we quickly exclude all page titles containing a ":" as a means of very roughly limiting the data set to articles (i.e., page titles not containing a namespace prefix), we're left with 129,994 page titles, it looks like. I took a cut of 100 pages and put them here for you to sample: Special:Permalink/571921754. The full data set is available here: <> (about 10 MB... you probably don't want to open this file in your Web browser).
Generally with a request like this, I'd ask what you're hoping to accomplish. I assume this is VE-related. I'm very hesitant to see bots going around mangling wikitext in order to accommodate VisualEditor's shortcomings. If VisualEditor can't handle this perfectly valid construct, VisualEditor (or Parsoid) needs to be fixed.
Hope that helps. --MZMcBride (talk) 14:59, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
Thank you! I'm not sure that "start a new row--never mind, end of table!" is a "perfectly valid construct" (the fact that it doesn't create a blank row is a misbug in the wikitext parser), but I agree that Parsoid needs to stop screwing up these tables (and to stop displaying them in VisualEditor as having a blank row at the end). Given how widespread it is, I don't think that a one-time fix is plausible. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:12, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
"|-" doesn't really mean "start a new row". You can create a simple table without it:
| hello
Surely we can recognize that this table would contain a row, but without the alleged "start a new row" directive. You can also have as many "|-"s as you want. For example, this is perfectly valid in wikimarkup:
| hello
Wikimarkup is silly, but one of the stated goals of both VisualEditor and Parsoid was to continue to support it as-is. --MZMcBride (talk) 15:38, 7 September 2013 (UTC)


FYI. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 22:01, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up. --MZMcBride (talk) 16:14, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

"bug!" ?

Trouty says: "Remember the BOT policy"

What's with the user page edits? :) Magus (talk) 23:45, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Bugs! I assume this edit triggered your attention. Sorry for the ping. I've been null editing millions of pages looking for anomalies. In this case, the line endings changed (from \r\n to \n), I believe, but the diff doesn't show this (bugzilla:42669). You can verify with the MediaWiki API. I've been finding all sorts of strangeness (unsubstituted templates, etc.) and things I didn't know were even possible by doing so many null edits. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 00:52, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
Bad idea. Next time, please get some feedback before doing such a task. This is the reason we have the whole BOT approval process. Kaldari (talk) 17:33, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
Hi Kaldari. Can you elaborate on "bad idea"? --MZMcBride (talk) 19:29, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
There are much better and less disruptive ways to find problems with null editing. This is what we have things like Beta Labs and for. Doing massive experiments on, especially without getting a sanity check from other community members, is rather reckless. In this case it spammed the job queue and sent useless notifications to who knows how many people. Obviously, it could have been worse, but if everybody did such experiments with no regard for the consequences, resource probably wouldn't last very long. Kaldari (talk) 20:05, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
K: Thanks for elaborating. As I understand it, you absolutely could not reproduce these issues on Beta Labs (and it would likely be quite difficult on Feel free to demonstrate otherwise, of course.

In any case, the goal wasn't to find problems with null editing, as you suggest, though finding null edit-related anomalies did become a byproduct of these edits. The goal is/was to refresh the pages, as many of them have not been run through the parser (or been purged from cache) in years.

If you're going to make claims about job queues, please substantiate your claims. I believe the global job queue is experiencing issues, but from what I've been told, these issues are related to Parsoid (to the tune of 2.4 million queued jobs). If you know otherwise, obviously I'd be interested. :-)

Regarding the tragedy of the commons, there's an old and established principle within MediaWiki that null edits are not supposed to add revisions to the database. This principle apparently holds true in most cases, but there are a statistically significant number of cases where this principle doesn't hold true. Personally, if I were you, I'd spend time focusing on that instead of attempting to chastise me. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:24, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Regardless of how much of the job queue backlog was related to your null edits, they certainly didn't help the situation. Nor does sending huge numbers of useless notifications to people (which could have easily been avoided with a bot flag). And regardless of whether your edits were a good idea or a bad idea, Resource: Bot policy is a policy, not a guideline or suggestion. If you weren't in the Bathrobe Cabal, I would have thrown you to the wolves. Instead, I'll give you a trout. Do with it as you will. Kaldari (talk) 21:10, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
(tps) This Bathrobe Cabal sounds useful, maybe I can join one day. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 21:27, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
B: I'm not sure the BRC is accepting new members. You can always upload a photo of your bathrobe-adorned self to Commons in order to find out. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 21:44, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
I don't know if it's the same thing, but the words "bathrobe cabal" reminded me of some Dilbert cartoons from May 1999, here they are: 24; 25; 26; 27; 28. Sort-of related is a series from February 1995: 6; 7; 8; 9. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:56, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks Redrose64. I suppose now if I do actually post that to commons the panel that says "We're called rebels because we're easily maniuplated into doing stupid things" will apply. ;-) I would like to see a gallery, though. Unfortunately, I am not qualified to join. My allegiance is with another cabal, which is yet to be created. It will hopefully "take over" resource and make ArbCom look stuffy and bureaucratic in comparison. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 08:40, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
Unfortunately, the copyright terms do not provide for a free license, so uploading to commons is a no-no. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:56, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
Redrose64, by that I meant a picture of myself, which is what the BRC is about. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 09:36, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
K: I think we should take this time to ponder the implications of attempting to request a bot flag in order to do nothing (in theory!). :-) Null editing is a Good Thing. The fact that null edits are adding revisions (not-so-null, amirite?) is related to a series of bugs, some of which are resolved, some of which are not. If you want to work on some of these issues, particularly enhancing the diff engine, the help would certainly be appreciated. But I won't really accept the premise that it's reasonable to wait years and years for links and caches to be updated when a viable solution is available (and documented as a good practice, though admittedly my research has demonstrated that the documentation is simply wrong). The revision noise isn't ideal, but it's certainly much better than the alternative. I did about eight million edits and I have about two million to go. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:43, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
Null editing is not nothing. It requires page reparsing and a bunch of DB writes for link update, both of which as you admitted were your goals. So you knew that it's not a noop but you didn't care if your actions would cause problems to the cluster. This is extremely reckless. Consider this your final warning: fuck with bots or any other technical aspects of the site once again and you're out. Max Semenik (talk) 22:37, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
MaxSem: Uhh, you're really out of line here.
I operate a number of bots, both locally and globally. If you want to take any or all of them over, that would be wonderful! Database reports in particular need a lot of love. I can add you to the "dbreps" multi-maintainer account on Wikimedia Labs (I think).
As for the job queue, I filed bugzilla:54406 to track the issue. The large global job queue seems to be directly related to Parsoid. Any rage you're currently experiencing (for reasons unknown, to be honest) should be redirected there. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 02:34, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Are you free Thursday, September 26? Join us at the Wikimedia DC WikiSalon!

Wikimedia DC invites you to join us for our next WikiSalon, which will be held from 7 to 9 PM on Thursday, September 26 at our K Street office.

The WikiSalon is an informal gathering of Wikimedia enthusiasts, who come together to discuss the Wikimedia projects and collaboratively edit. There's no set agenda, and guests are welcome to recommend articles for the group to edit or edit on their own. Light refreshments will be provided.

We look forward to seeing you there! Kirill [talk] 06:00, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

common.js changes

I've tested a version of common.js that does the trick. It's at User:Kww/common.js. I've used it with a new account, and it correctly disabled the preference, just as the RFC indicated.

Diff from the standard common.js is here.

So, the meat of the issue: should I proceed with implementing the RFC consensus this weekend, what are the odds of me still being an admin come Monday morning? Should I expect a summary removal of my rights at WMF insistence? Would bureaucrats even go along with that?—Kww(talk) 03:54, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

I doubt the WMF would remove your sysop rights, that would be crossing a pretty big line. Whether another admin will revert you though... Legoktm (talk) 05:38, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
What would the grounds for the reversion be? What grounds would an admin have for undoing a change based on such an overwhelming consensus?—Kww(talk) 05:41, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
Those are reasonable questions and I don't know the answer to either. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:45, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
(ec x2) Well, I'm not sure if common.js is the best place. A default gadget might be better since it would already have the RL caching set up. Also that autoconfirmed function is pretty ugly and inefficient. Legoktm (talk) 05:46, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
A gadget can't disable the editor for IPs. That autoconfirmed function is ugly (note the similar function that's down a few lines), but it works in all versions of Javascript. The last thing I would want to do is break things with the change.—Kww(talk) 05:55, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
I believe the issue with your current code is that you would slam the MediaWiki Web API with unneeded requests (and probably overload it). You only need to disable the preference once, not on every page load. This requires remembering (or looking up) state. --MZMcBride (talk) 06:00, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
A gadget would disable the editor for IPs as long as it is set to default. Default gadgets run for everyone, but only logged in users can disable them. I cleaned up your code at User:Legoktm/bleh.js, which makes it a little better. Still working on it though. Legoktm (talk) 06:10, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
Legoktm and I have had a side discussion, and I will have a much faster version ready in the morning.—Kww(talk) 07:12, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
Most of MediaWiki:Common.js uses a four-space indent; is it necessary for the code patch to use indents which are significantly larger? The two lines
change: 'visualeditor-betatempdisable=1',
token: json.tokens.optionstoken
protrude beyond the right margin at some resolutions. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:42, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
(edit conflict twice!) Kww: Few would argue that consensus is not on your side following the RFC. If you make the edit, you'll do so with strong community consensus behind you, after having discussed the idea at the appropriate village pump. The Wikimedia Foundation is free to ignore or subvert community consensus in its response to the RFC, but Wikimedia wikis are autonomous and are governed by community consensus. And local administrators are empowered, with community consensus, to implement site-wide changes to the user interface and user experience.
In other words, you won't be de-adminned. My current thinking is that the most likely scenario to happen is that you make the edit and get reverted by another administrator, perhaps by James F. in his role as a local administrator in good standing. Then the question becomes what happens next. Will a third admin step in? Will you re-revert? It's unclear. Wikimedia Foundation staff (as staff) wouldn't be foolish enough to get involved, I don't imagine. I think it would likely be a disaster if they did, exponentially so if they were short-sighted enough to try to remove your admin privileges here. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:44, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
James F is WP:INVOLVED. I doubt if he'd be daft enough to do that. Black Kite (talk) 16:48, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

For people that are watching this (and I know there's more than a handful), the latest revision of the code is at User:Kww/common2.js. It uses the obsolete Javascript editor disable gadget state as a flag: after it turns off VE using the preference, it sets the gadget on. If the gadget is on, it will never fiddle with the user's preference again. That avoids all scenarios that would lead to the server getting hammered with repetitive requests to change the preference. We will have to keep the obsolete gadget contents from interfering, but I don't think that's an issue.—Kww(talk) 15:54, 21 September 2013 (UTC)


You mentioned a "correcting database entry" on the block log, may I ask more details on this? It seems like the source could be a prevailing bug. -- A Certain White Cat chi? 01:52, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi . Unfortunately, I don't remember the details. I've copied myself on your bug report, though. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:56, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Per user talk deletion log

Just a courtesy call. I've just warned an IP for unconstructive editing. To do so, I had to recreate a page you deleted some time back, per this link [8] Cheers, Haploidavey (talk) 14:06, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 20:53, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

A thought

With your wise comments at the Village Pumps, I hope you also take the time to advise the board on who to hire as an Executive Director. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 08:31, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

B: I hope the Wikimedia community will see a short list soon. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 20:52, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
I can revert this if you'd like. If it bothers you, then I apologize in advance. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 10:59, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
B: I'm certainly not bothered, but I'm not sure I'm a reliable source. ;-) m:Executive Director Transition Team#Updates is, though. --MZMcBride (talk) 15:19, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Talk Page

Hi, when you get a chance could you reply to some of the questions on my talk page? BikeRider95 (talk) 03:05, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Sure, I'll try now. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:06, 1 October 2013 (UTC)


MZMcBride - I think it'd be better to assist Fluffernutter in patroling that page than reverting her. She's only 1 person right now trying her best.--v/r - TP 15:54, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

I have no doubt that she's trying her best. --MZMcBride (talk) 16:20, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for undoing Fluffernutter's reversion of my comments on Bradley Manning's move request. I'm not able to, so I appreciate it.  KoshVorlon. We are all Kosh   17:03, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm, it seems you got yourself blocked. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:40, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

WikiDefender Barnstar Hires.png The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
I strongly support your revert. Strongly. STRONGLY. Also, I appreciate the fact that you were willing to stick your neck out in such a contentious area. Don't worry about those who are saying that discretionary sanctions are hard to impose and so you shouldn't be making it harder. If they're going to enforce DS wrong, it should be hard to do. AutomaticStrikeout (?) 23:28, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Are you free on Sunday? Join us for a special Wikimedia DC WikiSalon!

Wikimedia DC invites you to join us for a special WikiSalon at the Martin Luther King, Jr. Memorial Library's Digital Commons Center. We will gather at 3 PM on Sunday, October 13, 2013 to discuss an important topic: what can resource and the DC area do to help each other? We hope to hear your thoughts and suggestions; if you have an idea you would like to pursue, please let us know and we will help!

Following the WikiSalon, we will be having dinner at a nearby restaurant, Ella's Wood Fired Pizza.

If you're interested in attending, please sign up at the event page. We look forward to seeing you there! Kirill [talk] 02:18, 8 October 2013 (UTC)


I'm still not sure exactly what happened here, but I suspect my watchlist started to update just when I hit the edit button, and a different link, a revert link, ended up under my cursor and got hit instead. I didn't realize I had done it at first, but then I discovered a newly opened tab telling of a reversion, and discovered I was the culprit! It's lucky I discovered it as fast as I did, because right now I have 22 resource tabs open, and 12 other tabs open. I love Firefox! It handles multiple tabs better than IE Explorer ever did. Even if it crashes, it will restore everything to the exact same spot. Well, my goof is fixed. Keep up the good work. -- Brangifer (talk) 03:58, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

No worries. :-) Yes, Internet Explorer is pretty painful to use and nearly anything else is an improvement. As much as I don't like Google, I've been using Chrome lately and it's even faster and more stable than Firefox, I've found. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:43, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
Hmmm....maybe I'll give it a try. -- Brangifer (talk) 06:44, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to The resource Adventure!

TWA guide left bottom.png
Hi! We're so happy you wanted to play to learn, as a friendly and fun way to get into our community and mission. I think these links might be helpful to you as you get started.
-- 19:54, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
File:TWA guide left bottom.png may be the most bizarre photo I've ever seen on Wikipedia. It's like a blueish ant-reindeer. This whole adventure thing is unbelievably trippy. I have no idea if it has any practical value, but it's certainly an interesting experiment. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:28, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
The ant resemblance symbolises Wikipedia's crowd-sourcing ethos, while the reindeer influence is indicative of hard work and the ability to endure inclement weather. The blue coloration symbolises the world-wide scope of Wikipedia's aims. Notice that the ant-reindeer wears both a bandolier and a Playboy-style bow tie; these are allusions to the WikiProjects that are, respectively, the one most prolific with quality resource content, and the one most prolific with questionable resource content.
There's also something about whalesong. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:03, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
There's something to be said about the resulting effect of a monster-like creature. Killiondude (talk) 22:22, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
What part of androgynous galactic carnival cowboy guru guide is so hard to understand? :) Ocaasit | c 00:27, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Cute grey kitten.jpg

Thank you for sending me the link to the Wikimedia Commons page on uploading from Flickr. I'll definitely try it out. I appreciate your help, and it was nice meeting you at the MLK Library Wiki meet-up!

Uncommon fritillary (talk) 01:59, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

EdwardsBot Check-in

Hey MZ! I have a big new newsletter I'd like to send out to the Wikipedia Library participants.

The newsletter intro I would send is here: Resource: The_Wikipedia_Library/Newsletter/October2013/Intro The recipients are everyone who has signed up for at least one free TWL account donation: User:Ocaasi/TWL_recipients

This is over 1,000 editors. Because of the size, I posted to both AN/I and VPR asking for guidance, and neither forum raised any objections to talk page messages. The newsletter after this initial run will be opt-in only.

I wanted to run it by you first. What do you think? Ocaasit | c 16:03, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

A few quick notes:
Hope that helps. --MZMcBride (talk) 16:23, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
Ah yes, I remember it, because I helped to track down some of the problems that the dirty input list caused. That wasn't the only thread. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:02, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for looking, MZ. Is there a particular tool you used or that I could use to analyze the input list? Ocaasit | c 21:24, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
This is basically the query that the bot will run. It's limited to 500 results, but you can pass the &plcontinue= URL parameter to get additional results (example). --MZMcBride (talk) 15:15, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
Excellent, thank you! (see isn't it better when i fuck up before I send it out ;) Ocaasit | c 15:28, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Neutral notice

This is a neutral notice that an RfC has been opened at an article which you have edited within the past year. It is at Talk:Clint Eastwood#8 children by 6 women. --Tenebrae (talk) 14:33, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Nomination for merging of Template:Online source

Template:Online source has been nominated for merging with Template:Press. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Steel1943 (talk) 22:22, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Ping Resource: Database reports/Unused non-free files has stopped updating. --Closedmouth (talk) 07:37, 10 November 2013 (UTC)


{{talkback|Template_talk:Soft_redirect#A_lot_less_clear|ts=01:03, 11 November 2013 (UTC)}} Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 01:03, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for the heads-up. I replied over there. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:32, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

"Like" template


Just a quick heads-up: you removed the icon associated with the Like template "per talk". However, the talk only wished for another icon not associated with any commercial brand, not that the icon be removed altogether.

Just giving you an opportunity to consider your options before weighing in on the talk page itself. Cheers, CapnZapp (talk) 11:19, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi CapnZapp. I think you may have missed the "Redesign" section on the talk page. I proposed redesigning the template a few months ago. There weren't any objections, so I went ahead. --MZMcBride (talk) 13:26, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
I missed a lot, apparently. I'm sorry I can't support your move, but at least I can clear up any confusion as to my actions on Template talk:Like lately. Go have a look, and be sure to ask me if anything is still unclear. CapnZapp (talk) 18:39, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
I replied at Template talk:Like. Please make an effort to be constructive rather than simply criticizing. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:47, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Help Desk request

In view of your posts here (bugzilla), please add your thoughts to the Help Desk request Can I have an opt-in please for the feedback tool for 1 article[9]. Thanks! -- Jreferee (talk) 14:51, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

You are awesome!

Thanks for all of your help in getting MassMessage deployed! Legoktm (talk) 19:42, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Woohoo! :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 21:08, 19 November 2013 (UTC)


Hi there. In trying to create a Talk:Androdioecy page with, I get the heads-up message: 19:34, 1 August 2008 MZMcBride (talk | contribs) deleted page Talk:Androdioecy (csd g6). Unless there's any pressing reason not to, a new talk age with a relevant project banner (e.g. WP Biology) should be created. Cheers. --Animalparty-- (talk) 20:39, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Animalparty. Feel free to re-create the page. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:09, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

MediaWiki message delivery

Are you the master of User:MediaWiki message delivery, who looks to have taken over some tasks from EdwardsBot? If so, the svwiki-userpage does not contains any mandatory Bot-template, and is also missing information of what it is supposed to do in the project. -- Lavallen (talk) 13:57, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

@Lavallen: This is m:MassMessage, not a bot. --Rschen7754 20:42, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
It walks like a bot, it looks like a bot and it sounds like a bot. It is a bot. This time (again) without a real botmaster. When will the developers learn that their pets have to follow community-guidelines, just like everybody else? -- Lavallen (talk) 08:07, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
@Lavallen: You realize that there are over 900 Wikimedia sites, and that the developers can't cater to the requirements of just one wiki, right? --Rschen7754 08:19, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
Hi Lavallen, yes, it basically is a bot. There was an email sent out to wikitech-ambassadors about this, but unfortunately I don't have the time to create user pages on all 800+ wikis. Your help in the matter would greatly be appreciated. User:MediaWiki message delivery is a basic information page that has been copied over and translated on Commons, Wikidata, zhwiki, and quite a few more. If you'd be willing to help translate it, that would be awesome. If you have any more questions about the extension, I'd be more than willing to answer them (I wrote most of it). Legoktm (talk) 08:26, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
Obviously, none of the users who subscribe to wikitech-ambassadors are active today on svwp (I know there is at least one), so it's introduction was a big suprise. The userpage has been set up by User:MagnusA and the botflag has been removed. This kind of bot normally operates without botflag on svwp. EdwardsBot have no botflag there for example. If you need help with setting up userpages, you always have Synchbot.
I guess the bot soon will be introduced to sv.wikisource. Neither on that project are we granting botflags to this kind of bots. That does not mean that they are forbidden, but we want to see them in RC. -- Lavallen (talk) 08:56, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
Hi Lavallen. I believe is a wiki. Be bold!
MassMessage is a replacement for global message delivery (which was operated by EdwardsBot). If you don't want to receive MassMessage deliveries, simply locally block the bot. :-) No big deal. There's more information here: mw:Help:Extension:MassMessage. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:28, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
Actually Translation Notification Bot is blocked on svwp, for spaming users_talks of inactive users. Hopefully is MediaWiki message delivery better tuned than that bot. -- Lavallen (talk) 18:22, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
Lavallen: Right. A longstanding component of wiki sovereignty is that individual site administrators may locally block problematic users, with community consensus behind the actions. I imagine "MediaWiki message delivery" will also eventually deliver to many user talk pages where the user is no longer seemingly active (few edits or other actions on-wiki). If this is a problem, these users can be unsubscribed or they can use the opt-out category or, if necessary, a local block can be placed on the account. This is all described at mw:Help:Extension:MassMessage#Opting out. It's perfectly fine if a local wiki blocks the bot; the English Wikinews (enwikinews) blocked EdwardBot a long time ago. :-)
Regarding the name itself, I voted to continue using "EdwardsBot", but Erik and Nemo wanted to use a name without "bot" in it and without the baggage (history, context) of the old legacy name. I acquiesced in the name of not holding up development over the color of the bikeshed. The account name used may be immutable due to unified login's implementation (you can't associate different usernames with different global user IDs, I believe). Hope that helps. --MZMcBride (talk) 18:38, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
The problem with Translation Notification Bot was that nobody else than the user hirself could deactivate the subscription. When the block was discovered by the developers, users who represented them threatened to turn of the possibility to block TNB. That never happend, but if they would have insisted, I'm afraid that it would have caused a massive Exodus from the project. Turning the fourth biggest wp-project to a SWMT-project would have looked awkward. It looks like unsubscription can be done by other users in this new bot, both by this category and by removing names from the subscription-lists. -- Lavallen (talk) 19:06, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
I like to think that we learn lessons from past experiences. ;-) Let me or Lego know if you have any troubles with MassMessage or need any help (though m:Talk:MassMessage is probably a better forum than my enormous talk page). --MZMcBride (talk) 20:48, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
One problem that became obvious today, was that some user tried to translate parts of the Tech News. Unfortunatly was the translation far from good. English is often easier to read, than a poor word by word translation. Is it possible to subscribe to the English version of the Tech News on a non-English wiki? -- Lavallen (talk) 09:50, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
I believe m:Tech/News is based on the wiki's content language, so you could simply have the message delivered to an English project. guillom would know for sure, though it sounds like the real answer is to simply have better translations. ;-) --MZMcBride (talk) 22:55, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Does not solve the issue, since it's in a project-page, not my or somebody elses user_talk. Not even my Dodge have a good translation for it's manual. If professionals can't provide a decent translation, why do you think volunteers would? :D -- Lavallen (talk) 10:30, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Just to confirm: Tech news is indeed posted in the wiki's content language, and defaults to English if that language isn't available. guillom 13:46, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Template editor?

I know you've not been a fan of getting extra user rights on enwiki in the past, but I wonder if you might feel differently about the template editor user right. Would you like me to activate it on your account? -- Mr. Stradivarius ? talk ? 14:28, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi. No thanks. :-) {{sudo}} seems to serve me pretty well in the very rare case that I need to edit a protected template. --MZMcBride (talk) 18:43, 27 November 2013 (UTC) Resource: Database reports/Broken redirects

Hi Mr McBride. I see the above report, generated by BersteinBot, has not been generated since November 4. I wonder if you could get that happening again when you have a minute? There's a related discussion at Resource: Administrators' noticeboard/Archive257#Special:BrokenRedirects. Thanks, -- Diannaa (talk) 16:38, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for the heads-up. I commented over there. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:20, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Superciliary arches


An article that you have been involved in editing, Superciliary arches, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Petter Bøckman (talk) 13:25, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for the note, though my involvement in that article was only superficial. I have no opinion on the merger proposal. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:09, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

EdwardsBot and usernames containing special characters

In April, the bot left a comment at User_talk:M.Siersb\xc3\xa6k. However, there is no such user as M.Siersb\xc3\xa6k (talk · contribs). The bot's comment seems to have been meant for M.Siersbæk (talk · contribs). At bugzilla:58316 I've proposed that the Wikimedia software should decode Javascript "\x" escapes; in the meantime you might want to fix your bot if you haven't already. —rybec 21:39, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Rybec. If you look at Special:Permalink/549699204, you can see that Sage Ross sent a message to Resource: resource Education Program/Surveys/2013 Q1 students, which improperly contains a link to User:M.Siersb\xc3\xa6k. This was not a bot error, this was human error. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:03, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for explaining! —rybec 23:07, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Glad Tidings and all that ...

Bolas navideñas.jpg FWiW Bzuk (talk) 23:31, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Pratyya (Hello!) 04:48, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Automatic updates for Resource: WikiProject India/List of Indian Wikipedians by number of edits

I found that Resource: WikiProject India/List of Indian Wikipedians by number of edits is maintained manually and not by a bot. Is there anyway that this list could be automated? As the owner of BernsteinBot (talk · contribs), could you automate this task? DiptanshuTalk 13:04, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Kundu

Ambox warning yellow.svg

The article Kundu has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Non notable article, possibly directory, several of these article are just stub unsourced, an article (list) containing all these entries would suit better. All these articles were kept under the moniker that they would be eventually expanded, which clearly they did not.

While all constructive contributions to resource are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Eduemoni?talk? 14:39, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Eduemoni. It looks like you were quickly reverted by DGG at Kundu. I created that page as a redirect many years ago (in 2006!), but it seems that its original purpose got lost when it was un-redirected and expanded. I added a hatnote just now. Hope that helps. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:01, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

EdwardsBot's retirement plans

Is EdwardsBot being retired on 1 January? I'm afraid I was rather waiting for an API module for the MassMessage extension before I migrated the Signpost code... plus the migration itself will be a fair amount of work. Mmm. - Jarry1250 [Vacation needed] 21:01, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

EdwardsBot will no longer be supported after December 31, 2013. This means it'll operate until it inevitably dies on the Toolserver or it goes crazy and gets globally blocked. Or something else happens to finally kill the beast. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. ;-)
I know that you're waiting on the API module (bugzilla:54859). I said as much here: bugzilla:57464#c22. Just today, bugzilla:58962 was resolved and there's now a new user group on the English resource (and a discussion opened about it here). We're making progress. :-)
That said, not knowing the particulars of how the Signpost publishes, I can still safely say that you can always just submit the deliveries by hand. It's not difficult. If EdwardsBot goes away, the Signpost can easily continue to be delivered using MassMessage. --MZMcBride (talk) 01:50, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. It's good to know that EdwardsBot is simply EOL.
Regards publishing by hand, the subscriber list still needs to be converted (at least as I understand it), which will break EdwardsBot (which is not forwards compatible). Is my understanding correct? - Jarry1250 [Vacation needed] 21:59, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
Interesting question. EdwardsBot relies on pagelinks, so if {{#target:foo}} adds page links, it should be backward-compatible. Otherwise, not. But... just stop using EdwardsBot and you won't have to worry about backward-compatibility. It's past December 31 and EdwardsBot is going to break. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:53, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
It should still work fine since I made #target output page links on enwiki. Legoktm (talk) 09:30, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
Sorry about not getting the API module done sooner, it's been stuck in code review. I'm definitely not advocating screen scraping, but if you send a post request to index.php (using proper cookies) with a body of title=Special:MassMessage, subject="<header>", message="<body>", spamlist="Page name of spamlist", wpEditToken="your bots edittoken", it should probably work... ;) Legoktm (talk) 08:51, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
Ah, I'm just seeing this. MassMessage isn't currently compatible with the subscriber list, AFAIK, unless it's slow and it'll send out later, which would be terribly embarrassing. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 04:42, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
Ed: Sorry, I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here. Jarry1250 has now converted Resource: resource Signpost/Tools/Spamlist to use the new {{#target:}} parser function (thanks, Jarry!). This means that this list can continue to work with EdwardsBot or this (same) list can now be used with Special:MassMessage.
Rather than taking several hours, as it did with EdwardsBot, deliveries should now complete in a matter of minutes (you can see just how quickly by skimming through Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery). --MZMcBride (talk) 23:56, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Page too large

You have to archive this page or I'll have to buy more RAM for my laptop. -- Magioladitis (talk) 17:12, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, it's a bit insane. :-) I usually try to keep it below 300,000 bytes, but we're now at over 350,000 bytes. Eep! I've still got a few posts way up there that need a proper reply. I'll try to get the page archive-ready in the next few days. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:38, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Mainspace is the encyclopedia

Is there a good project page which describes the problem that I am trying to articulate at Resource: Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 January 5#Godwin Family Tree? (and elsewhere on that RfD page) e.g. a list of resource apps/reusers that will break because they only use mainspace content and will fail when mainspace content treats template pages as if they were content pages. I'd rather not need to test every app/reuse out there to see if it properly handles these oddities or at least degrades gracefully. John Vandenberg (chat) 03:22, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

John Vandenberg: I don't know of a relevant project page off-hand.
Generally, content should go in the $wgContentNamespaces, but this doesn't actually match reality. There will be always be exceptions. Eventually, if not already, there will be content in the Module namespace and in Wikidata. And you have to ask yourself: is it more wrong to have content in the Template namespace or have a template in the article (Main) namespace? That is, you can transclude nearly any namespace. Articles (pages in NS:0) are occasionally used as templates, sort of. :-)
Cross-namespace redirects are only important when they interact with the content namespaces (read: main) as far as I'm concerned. For some cases, such as Template:Godwin family tree, I'd recommend getting the template deleted as unused (T3?) and then the cross-namespace redirects will eventually be re-targeted or deleted as broken. Or you could move that page into the content namespace and update the links. For a page like AB1120, I like the idea of making a disambiguation page. And, no offense, but nominating User:El Roih for deletion seems pretty short-sighted and silly. That user is clearly new and unfamiliar with the intricacies of MediaWiki. That user page is/was almost certainly a test page. A simple edit would've been sufficient, but instead there's now a deletion discussion.
Bleh && shrug. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:19, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
I know German resource regularly transcludes mainspace pages into mainspace. IMO that is fine. They are all within ns0, which imposes a set of rules around how those pages 'should' work, and be named. XNR are also ok IMO, as they can safely be discarded by reusers, and we have cats/tags on XNR to indicate they are to be excluded. However templates that are needed to reconstruct 'Wikipedia' are not tagged as such. I'm interesting to find out what exceptions there are to 'content' being in ns0. I only know of a few at Resource: Database_reports/Cross-namespace_redirects/2. Template: being part of content space may not be so bad for re-users, as the '[wiki]-[date]-pages-articles*' dumps include templates, so a reuser only needs to find them in the dump in order to add them to 'the encyclopedia'.
I didn't know T3 was used for unused templates. That isnt in the manual! ;-)
El Roih is 3 wiki years old, and has 3,000 edits. Is that new? Still, I should have edited it first to see if that would stick. Thanks for your helpful response. John Vandenberg (chat) 05:41, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
John Vandenberg: I'm not sure it's happening here (yet), but the English Wiktionary is using Scribunto modules as mini dictionaries, as I recall. I've had similar ideas about storing structured data in Scribunto modules to be able to easily create dynamically generated tables of U.S. Supreme Court justices (sorted by time in office, longest life, etc., without needing to duplicate input data everywhere or do manual calculations). One day, this data will all be in Wikidata, allegedly. But the importance of Template and Module pages will only increase, I imagine. Portal and Book hold some content. Categories hold content. The new Draft namespace sort of holds content. Plus Commons and any other foreign content repos, of course. It's everywhere!
Re: El Roih: Special:WhatLinksHere/User talk:El Roih. But very fair point on your part, I hadn't looked very closely except to notice the lack of communication. Perhaps he or she doesn't speak English natively? --MZMcBride (talk) 05:53, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
The need to access extra data & code in order to generate 'Wikipedia' is not my concern (it is inevitable that the process is becoming harder/more complicated to generate Wikipedia, but the software to do this is improving rapidly as well). My concern is the 'which pages to render in order to create a printed version of Wikipedia' question; if we cant answer that, or our answer changes regularly because we allow exceptions to appear organically, how can re-users know the answer. I would assume pages in ns0 would be 'the answer', excluding ns0 pages marked as not-encyclopedic (mostly redirects, if not all redirects). However if we allow some ns0 pages link to templates as an actual page to be viewed by readers (e.g. especially Resource: Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 January 5#National symbols of Poland), then to render 'the encyclopedia' the re-user needs ns0 + some other set, which isnt defined anywhere as far as I know. If a reuser needs to render 'Template:Godwin family tree', will they call it 'Template:Godwin family tree' in the printed index? or should it be called 'Godwin family tree'? If the latter, why don't we require it is in mainspace, and all mainspace policies then apply. John Vandenberg (chat) 06:17, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
J.V.: You make a fine point. I'm reminded of Resource: Reusing resource content, though it currently has no requirement about which namespace(s) content be in. Perhaps it could be made more strict as a promise to reusers. From a technical point of view, you're really talking about $wgContentNamespaces, I think, as mentioned. I'm not sure MediaWiki will ever get more granular than that, though from that we do make it easier to filter certain types of pages such as redirects and disambiguation pages by marking them. --MZMcBride (talk) 06:49, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Edwin85's tools

Hey MZ, I noticed you were given maintainer status of Erwin's tools over at the Labs. I was wondering, hoping, possibly pleading, to see if Related Changes could be made functional again. It's the only tool I'm aware of that lets users monitor changes to pages in entire category trees, something I found invaluable on Commons. Just wondering if it's possible to fix, or make anew, or if there's already something available that does the same job (the tool list at Labs is...less than navigable). Thanks! -- Huntster (t @ c) 03:36, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Huntster. If nothing else, we should fix that egregious typo in the user interface ("it's subcategories" instead of "its subcategories")! Can you provide an example category that you're trying to query? --MZMcBride (talk) 17:14, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
Haha. I monitor a number of spaceflight (and other) categories on Commons, narrow ones such as Commons:Category:SpaceX and Commons:Category:Orbital Sciences, and broad ones like Commons:Category:NASA vehicles. About 10 I monitor(ed) regularly, and others as needed. It's just incredibly useful to see a Watchlist-style list of changes within specific category trees. -- Huntster (t @ c) 18:26, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
Aha, I see now. looks to be broken in a few ways. :-/ --MZMcBride (talk) 19:40, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
Yes, it's not been feeling well for a few months. I had thought Erwin was completely inactive, and had given up hope of resurrection until I saw they had been auto-ported to Labs, and I went a-lookin' on Meta. -- Huntster (t @ c) 21:05, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Question on the article creation page

Hey, MZM. I am currently writing an article for the signpost about some of the trends that can be observed on the pages that the Bernsteinbot maintains. I was wondering if there was a reason behind limiting the list to the top 3,000 users. Would there be any way to expand it to 5,000 or 10,000 editors? I've noticed a trend where 55% of articles have been written by 3,000 users, so I was wondering if you would be able to expand it so that we could see what other data might be out there, if it wouldn't be too much of an inconvenience. Thanks for your time, and I look forward to hearing back from you! Kevin Rutherford (talk) 04:52, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Kevin. It usually helps to include links when posting talk page messages. ;-) I assume you're referring to Resource: List of Wikipedians by article count?
This report relies on a user database (u_mzmcbride_enwiki_page_creators_p) that's populated using some awful script I've forgotten about. I believe the most notable bug is that it doesn't account for user renames. Getting a larger data set should be easy enough to do. Do you have a Toolserver account? If so, you can just run the query yourself. Otherwise, any Toolserver user can run it. The source code for the report itself is here: Special:Permalink/590455166.
It's limited to 3,000 results because large pages are slow (as this very talk page readily demonstrates!) and I suppose the data didn't seem interesting enough to paginate the results for. It'd be easy enough to do if someone wanted to... is that what you'd like? How many results should we have per page and to what limit? --MZMcBride (talk) 03:38, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
Oh gosh, I am sorry about that! I am writing about trends in this Signpost article, and that's why I was wondering. I guess I never noticed about the size, as I have rather fast internet at home and school, but I can see your point. I know that the edit count page goes up to 5,000, so that is why it might be an interesting number to see, especially since so few editors write so much of Wikipedia. Based on that second chart on the page, you can see what I mean by the previous remark, and it would be interesting to see what the next two thousand editors might be up to (although I suspect it's only five percent, based on the curve). If you wanted to go the top 10,000 editors, I would be supportive of that, but we might not get anything huge out of that beyond someone writing a few pages. Finally, I would love to request a Toolserver account, although I don't think I would have a good enough justification at this time, especially with my limited coding skills. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 03:52, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
I bumped the report's limit up to 5,000 from 3,000. The report should update in a few minutes. --MZMcBride (talk) 06:31, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) @Ktr101: If by "the edit count page" you mean Resource: List of Wikipedians by number of edits, it only appears to go up to 5,000 - in fact, it's showing five separate lists, each of 1,000. A total of ten such lists are prepared weekly, named Resource: List of Wikipedians by number of edits/1-1000 through Resource: List of Wikipedians by number of edits/9001-10000.


did not deliver me The Signpost for 8 January, although the bot already appears to have sent it out. I did not receive it on any wiki I subscribed to, see this list. Sportsguy17 (T o C) 15:00, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Sportsguy17. EdwardsBot is no longer actively maintained. Everyone should be using MassMessage now. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 03:27, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
Change is evil. Killiondude (talk) 03:54, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
Preach, Onewayout12, preach. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:57, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
AOL/AIM was a fun time. Killiondude (talk) 04:53, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Cross-namespace redirects

Any chance you might be able to refresh Resource: Database reports/Cross-namespace redirects soon? A lot of the stranger entries have been deleted over the last two months. John Vandenberg (chat) 05:27, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

J.V.: No Labs account? You should be able to fix this up. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 03:06, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
I do/did have a toolserver account... but no labs account. I can, and will, if you dont want to, but you've been doing it for a long time so I figured I would ask. John Vandenberg (chat) 03:35, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
J.V.: Projects like database reports are like ponies: cute and fun at first, but after a while, draining and exhausting. Or if you want to think about it at a more basic level, each report is like a pony and we now have well over 100. :-( The Toolserver is dying and Labs is incomplete and kind of sucks. It's difficult to find time or inclination to work on database reports, as much as I think someone should. The source code is as available as I can make it (posted on-wiki, in a GitHub repository, and released into the public domain). It's on my list for 2014 to find a better long-term solution for database reports (which may mean finally doing a proper rewrite), but who knows. Of course now I feel guilty about the subject again and I'm thinking I can at least do a one-off update for you. Bleh. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:44, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
J.V.: Bah, updated: cross-namespace redirects (configuration). The report isn't fixed, though, I just did a one-time update. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:12, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
You rock! That is all. John Vandenberg (chat) 04:19, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Message sending

Hi, hope you do not mind me asking you about sending out messages. I have been trying to send out the WP:YORKS newsletter using the Mass Mailing facility but I seem to get zero items sent. I am obviously doing something wrong any pointers would be grateful.

I set-up the list for distribution as Resource: WikiProject Yorkshire/Members Newsletter Distribution and inserted into the first box on the form - without the square brackets. Inserted title and copied the page text to the last box. My guess is there is some problem with the distribution list.

Many thanks Keith D (talk) 01:15, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Keith D.
I fixed Resource: WikiProject Yorkshire/Members Newsletter Distribution with this edit. You should be able to use Special:MassMessage now.
Confusingly, both Meta-Wiki and the English Wikipedia have a(n historical) "target" template, but even more confusingly they behave differently due to a hack in place only on Meta-Wiki (that perhaps should be in place here as well... it's debatable). The "target" template is just a wrapper around a distinct, but very similar looking, technology called a parser function. Basically instead of {{target|foo}} syntax, you want {{#target:foo}} syntax (note the "#" and ":" in a parser function). At least for now you want to use the parser function; someone may eventually fix up the local {{target}} to be a wrapper around the parser function. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:13, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
Many thanks for the change. The instructions indicate it is best to use the {{target}} template and the example list uses it. Keith D (talk) 11:58, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
Keith D: Eep! If you let me know which pages have wrong instructions, I can take a look. (cc: Lego) --MZMcBride (talk) 15:41, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
I was using this as could not locate any local instructions. Also the real example used here has {{target}} though does not mention it in the instructions. Keith D (talk) 17:19, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
Keith D: Thanks for the links. I fixed up the pages a bit with this edit and this edit. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 06:45, 16 January 2014 (UTC)


Can you give me an approximate count of ref names that contain &nbsp;? There's a script that has been converting <ref name="3 million"> into <ref name="3&nbsp;million"> for several years, and I'd like to know the scale of the problem. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:00, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

WhatamIdoing: Hi.
Can I? Yes. Will I? Probably. I spent the past minute or two thinking about this request. There's a script I already wrote for you that can be re-used, I think. It seemed most logical to scan a dump and count the number of &nbsp;-refs per page and output a log in the format of "0|User talk:MZMcBride\n23|Barack_Obama\n". Or something like that.
Why are you still using EdwardsBot? --MZMcBride (talk) 02:59, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm still using EdwardsBot because I already know how it works. I spent a while looking at the MassMessage instructions yesterday (while EdwardsBot was running, actually), and I think I'll try it out for the next newsletter. I'll need to convert the list from our old format to the new one, but it looks like that will be pretty easy, since I'm already working with a very uniform {{user}} list rather than signatures. A quick search and replace should handle it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:41, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Meetups coming up in DC!


You are invited to two upcoming events in DC:

  • Meetup at Capitol City Brewery on Saturday, January 25 at 6 PM. Please join us for dinner, drinks, socializing, and discussing Wikimedia DC activities and events. All are welcome! RSVP on the linked page or through Meetup.
  • Art and Feminism Edit-a-Thon on Saturday, February 1 from Noon - 5 PM. Join us as we improve articles on notable women in history! All are welcome, regardless of age or level of editing experience. RSVP on the linked page or through Meetup.

I hope to see you there!

(Note: If you do not wish to receive talk page messages for DC meetups, you are welcome to remove your username from this page.)

Harej (talk) 00:07, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi! I won't be around for the first event and the second event doesn't sound like my kind of thing. Sigh. --MZMcBride (talk) 06:55, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Vitruvian Barnstar Hires.png The Technical Barnstar
Thank you for your patient and kind assistance with resolving the bug in Filter 602. It was very kind of you to take the time to help me! AGK [o] 00:00, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
AGK: No problem. I'm glad I could help. By the way, I very briefly searched Bugzilla and came across bugzilla:50107. I don't think this bug is directly relevant to the issue you hit, but it makes me think added_lines is (and has been) just generally wonky and unstable. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:49, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Deleted Talk page: Talk:Captaincies of Brazil

You previously deleted the page Talk:Captaincies of Brazil. Now we have an article without a Talk page, and I'm editing the article, so need to use it. How can there be an article without a Talk page? Is it ok for me to reconstitute the page? This whole article has a weird history of being merged then unmerged. For now, it's here, and so, it needs a talk page.Sbalfour (talk) 19:54, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Sbalfour. Talk:Captaincies of Brazil was deleted in March 2008 as part of routine housekeeping. Talk pages can be deleted for a variety of reasons, particularly when the subject-space page is deleted or no longer contains content (e.g., the page is redirected). Talk pages are related to, but not directly attached to, subject-space pages. For a long time it was common for subject-space pages to exist without an associated talk page on this wiki, but slowly bots and other automated tools such as AutoWikiBrowser have been used to add WikiProject tags and other metadata to millions of talk pages. This also helps with the ongoing war against red links. :-/ On other wikis, it's far more common to have a red link for the talk page. Feel free to re-create the talk page as you see fit. --MZMcBride (talk) 07:29, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
Just FYI, the page only had two revisions, both from 2007: the first revision consisted solely of "{{WikiProject Portugal}}", then in the second revision it was blanked. Fran Rogers (talk) 18:22, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Move like this

I liked your "mountain of evidence", - one link goes to "awesomely weird", --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:19, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

On the 28th: a blue duck attacks the German Main page, right now, - a homage, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:19, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

re: E-mailed survey

There's a hard coded limit of 10 emails per day for a single account, so I use the said declared alt account to reduce the hassle.

I am under the impression that the Committee is mostly inactive (the mailing list is mostly dried out, Monthly WMF Rcom report and Meetings pages have not been published in years...), but it does appear people are still listing their research there. Not all of them, but I agree it's good practice, so I added a description to meta:Research:Why editors reduce activity. Anyway, several members of the Committee should be aware of this project, as I've been in contact with them about it, through I discussed my project primarily with the (more active) WMF, represented by User:Howief (since he is the expert on the research topic, as the principal investigator of [10]). Is there anything else you'd like to ask? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:04, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Your revert at resource talk:WikiProject U.S. Supreme Court cases

Hi there, MZMcBride, I responded to your revert at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. Supreme Court cases by posting a new subsection for community discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._Supreme_Court_cases#Inactive_threads_and_notifications_to_since_closed_discussions.

I hope you are well,

Cirt (talk) 02:45, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks very much

Thank you so much, MZMcBride, for proving to be most polite and cordial in discussions with me about this archiving issue.

I really do appreciate your demeanor a lot! :)

Thanks again,

Cirt (talk) 03:54, 29 January 2014 (UTC)


can you run your bot (BernsteinBot) on to update list of wikipedians by Nr. of edits, like you are doing this on enwiki? Our list is outdated, last update was on 21 June 2012. We dont need Top 5000. Just first 500 or max. 1000 users. XXN (talk) 22:59, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Guinea pigs

Yes, I complain. I already told you that I don't want to be involved in Flow discussions, please stop. --Nemo 07:26, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Nemo: I thought you'd appreciate the e-mail notification! I doubt you'll be able to avoid Flow indefinitely. :-) Lighten up. --MZMcBride (talk) 13:50, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
Sure. We also all have to die, in the end. /me points MZMcBride to the precipice "run!". --Nemo 14:01, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
I have been watching Resource: WikiProject Hampshire for about three years, maybe more, although I never signed the membership list. From late yesterday, it's clogged up my watchlist with entries that all lack a "diff" link, and the "history" link found on a few is nigh-on useless. Since I have no way of actually finding out what the text change is, there's no point in it being in my watchlist. It now has 31 watchers, judging by Page information for the main page. If you try the "Page information" for the talk page, what you get is the talk page itself. bugzilla:60834
So, if you don't like Flow, do what I did at WP Hants, and unwatch it. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:50, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for filing that bug report (I copied myself on it). I've mostly given up on my watchlist in favor of Special:Contributions (and an IRC stalk-bot). --MZMcBride (talk) 00:53, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
At the precipice, we should be shouting "brace!" or "jump!" or something, surely. ;-) --MZMcBride (talk) 00:53, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

I have visited WT:Flow a few times over the last few days. From what I have read from "WMF" accounts, I get the feeling that this is going to a VisualEditor redux episode where horrible software is put in place and then the community nearly riots. Can we start the rioting prior to the rollout this time? Killiondude (talk) 01:04, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Prior to the rollout? I think you're a bit late. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 03:59, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
You know what I mean. Killiondude (talk) 16:44, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
I'm glad I have an invisibility cloak on. Legoktm (talk) 04:37, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
<3 Killiondude (talk) 16:44, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Coming up in February!

Hello there!

Our February WikiSalon is coming up on Sunday, February 23. Join us at our gathering of resource enthusiasts at the Kogod Courtyard of the National Portrait Gallery with an optional dinner after. As usual, all are welcome. Care to join us?

Also, if you are available, there is an American Art Edit-a-thon being held at the Smithsonian American Art Museum with Professor Andrew Lih's COMM-535 class at American University on Tuesday, February 11 from 2 to 5 PM. Please RSVP on the linked page if you are interested.

If you have any ideas or preferences for meetups, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Meetup/DC.

Thank you, and hope to see you at our upcoming events! Harej (talk) 18:41, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Woo! --MZMcBride (talk) 00:55, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

IRC bot named snerk

Hi, there's an irc bot called snerk and apparently you had something to do with developing it, so I'd like to ask you about a bug it has. You can ask it to show you Wikipedia's article on a given topic (/wp Article name), and sometimes it includes an error message of the form 'Cite error: There are tags on this page, but the references will not show without a ...', but usually there isn't actually such an error when it says this. Would you happen to know how to fix this or who would know how? Sorry to bother you if you don't. Cathfolant (talk) 05:57, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi Cathfolant. Yes, this script really needs to be rewritten. Do you know Python? --MZMcBride (talk) 04:24, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
No, I don't. Cathfolant (talk) 05:24, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Colonial Properties

I have proposed deletion for this, which you appear to have tried to rescue at some time in the past. My concern is "Non-notable REIT, very run of the mill. Unsourced." Bearian (talk) 21:33, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Bearian: Err, you mean this single edit I made to the article? I'm not sure I'd call that a rescue operation. :-) It seems the ticker symbol was reinserted into the article as well. Hrmph. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:21, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

BernsteinBot Busted?

BernsteinBot doesn't seem to be updating the Resource: List_of_Wikipedians_by_article_count for at least a month or so. If you can't fix it, perhaps one of your talk page stalkers can peek at it. Montanabw(talk) 23:41, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Did meetup happen?

I was at the Kogod Courtyard for the DC meetup to day promptly at 3:00pm. I didn't see any group that seemed to be the Wikipedians. One group had a sign "meetup" but it was the DC Philosophy Club. Anbothe was a photographer's group. Where was everyone? was this canceled? DES (talk) 00:03, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Citizens Republic Bancorp

There is an IP address who wants to talk about Citizens Republic Bancorp in the present tense even though the corporate entity no longer exists. Please monitor the article. Thank you. Steelbeard1 (talk) 18:49, 27 February 2014 (UTC) Resource: WikiProject Editing trends/Raw data/Revisions per day

Hello, MZMcBride,
It looks like this table hasn't been updated since July 2013 and I was wondering if it could be updated again. If I can do it myself, please let me know as it seems like you get a lot of these kinds of requests. Thanks! Liz Read! Talk! 12:40, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

DC Meetups in March

Happy March!

Though we have a massive snowstorm coming up, spring is just around the corner! Personally, I am looking forward to warmer weather.

Wikimedia DC is looking forward to a spring full of cool and exciting activities. In March, we have coming up:

  • Evening WikiSalon on Wednesday, March 12 from 7 PM - 9 PM. Meet up with Wikipedians for coffee at the Cove co-working space in Dupont Circle! If you cannot make it in the evening, join us at our...
  • March Meetup on Sunday, March 23 from 3 PM - 6 PM. Our monthly weekend meetup, same place as last month. Meet really cool and interesting people!
  • Women in the Arts 2014 meetup and edit-a-thon on Sunday, March 30 from 10 AM - 5 PM. Our second annual Women in the Arts edit-a-thon, held at the National Museum of Women in the Arts. Free lunch will be served!

We hope to see you at our upcoming events! If you have any questions, feel free to ask on my talk page.

-- Harej (talk) 05:11, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

An RfC that you may be interested in...

As one of the previous contributors to {{Infobox film}} or as one of the commenters on it's talk page, I would like to inform you that there has been a RfC started on the talk page as to implementation of previously deprecated parameters. Your comments and thoughts on the matter would be welcomed. Happy editing!

This message was sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of (t o e o c) 18:26, 8 March 2014 (UTC) Resource: List of Wikipedians by article count

Dear MZMcBride,

may you run BernsteinBot in the german wikipedia, because there is a list of Wikipedians by article count still missing?--Kopiersperre (talk) 17:12, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Infobox The West Wing season 6 episode list

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:Infobox The West Wing season 6 episode list has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. eh bien mon prince (talk) 12:28, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Infobox The West Wing season 7 episode list

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:Infobox The West Wing season 7 episode list has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. eh bien mon prince (talk) 12:28, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

An exciting month of wiki events!

Hello there,

I am pleased to say that April will be a very exciting month for resource in Washington, DC. We have a lot of different events coming up, so you will have a lot to choose from.

First, a reminder that our second annual Women in the Arts Edit-a-Thon will take place on Sunday, March 30 at the National Museum of Women in the Arts.

Coming up in April, we have our first-ever Open Government WikiHack with the Sunlight Foundation on April 5-6! We are working together to use open government data to improve the Wikimedia projects, and we would love your help. All are welcome, regardless of coding or editing experience. We will also be having a happy hour the day before, with refreshments courtesy of the Sunlight Foundation.

On Friday, April 11 we are having our first edit-a-thon ever with the Library of Congress. The Africa Collection Edit-a-Thon will focus on the Library's African and Middle East Reading Room. It'll be early in the morning, but it's especially worth it if you're interested in improving Wikipedia's coverage of African topics.

The following day, we are having our second annual Wiki Loves Capitol Hill training. We will discuss policy issues relevant to Wikimedia and plan for our day of outreach to Congressional staffers that will take place during the following week.

There are other meetups in the works, so be sure to check our meetup page with the latest. I hope to see you at some of these events!

All the best,
James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 01:29, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

User talk:BernsteinBot

I've posted a couple of questions over there, please have a look. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 12:38, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Deletion of userpage User:Seanpmc1

Hi MZMcBride, over five years ago you have deleted User:Seanpmc1 for reason Resource: CSD#G6. However, I can't see why G6 would apply here?! Is this the correct reason? --KnightMove (talk) 14:29, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi KnightMove. CSD G6 generally refers to routine housekeeping. In the case of User:Seanpmc1, that page has never been edited by the user in question. The deleted revisions are:
  • October 26, 2008 . . (talk | block) (empty) (
  • October 26, 2008 . . (talk | block) (216 bytes)
  • October 26, 2008 . . (talk | block) (243 bytes)
  • October 23, 2008 . . CameronWrigley (talk | contribs | block) (232 bytes) (
In 2008, I imagine I went through blanked user pages and deleted that user page as part of standard wiki maintenance. Hope that helps. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:21, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Output of stalker tool

Hi there. Quick question, what does the output of your stalker tool such as "2/2 [1, 2]" indicate? I'm possibly being a bit dim but it doesn't immediately spring to mind. Cheers, -- Scott o talk 12:46, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi Scott. I suppose it's not as clear when you're only comparing two users. If you were comparing three users (example), you'll see "2/3 [1, 3]" and "2/3 [2, 3]" and "3/3 [1, 2, 3]" (for Second Life). If you hover over the bracketed numbers, the tooltip tells you which user matched. So in the case of Second Life, all three of you have edited that article. But in the case of Alicia Keys, only two of you have edited that article.
The source of is available here, if you're curious. I hadn't really planned on migrating these tools to Labs, but given their popularity, perhaps I should. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:28, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
Ah yes, that's clear now, thanks.
They do seem to be popular, probably because they're simple and efficient (thanks for writing them, by the way), so I'm sure people would be happy to see you migrate them. -- Scott o talk 17:55, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Your input is invited on this round of FDC proposals!

Hello! I'm reaching out to you on behalf of the Funds Dissemination Committee to request your input on the four proposals that have been submitted to the FDC in this round. The FDC reviews these proposals on behalf of the Wikimedia movement, as it is movement money that they spend, and in order to review them effectively we need to understand your perspective on them, and to ensure that any questions you have about them have been appropriately answered. The proposals are linked to from meta:Grants:APG/Proposals/Community/Review#Proposals_for_review. Please provide your feedback through the talk pages for each proposal.

In particular, please take a close look at the Wikimedia Foundation's draft annual plan. As they have a projected budget of over $60 million (including the grants that they will provide to other movement entities), their plans need extra scrutiny by the community to make sure that they are spending the movement's money effectively.

We will also send you a message to ask you for your input in future rounds of the FDC. If you don't want to receive such messages, then please say so below.

Thanks! Mike Peel (talk) 19:28, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Two edit-a-thons coming up!

Hello there!

I'm pleased to tell you about two upcoming edit-a-thons:

  • This Tuesday, April 29, from 2:30 to 5:30 PM, we have the Freer and Sackler edit-a-thon. (Sorry for the short notice!)
  • On Saturday, May 10 we have the Wikipedia APA edit-a-thon, in partnership with the Smithsonian Asian Pacific American Center, from 10 AM to 5 PM.

We have more stuff coming up in May and June, so make sure to keep a watch on the DC meetup page. As always, if you have any recommendations or requests, please leave a note on the talk page.


James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 20:38, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Bengali Wikisource

hi,MZMcBride,I am trying to use this for bnwikisource this. the error comes.<type 'exceptions.ValueError'>. could you please fixed for Bengali Wikisource?, thank you in advance. - Jayanta Nath (Talk|Contrb) 01:47, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

In case it helps interpret the error message, the string '\xe0\xa7\xa7' is the UTF-8 representation of the Bengali digit ? (meaning 1). Johnuniq (talk) 11:16, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
Hi Jayanta Nath and Johnuniq. My esteemed colleague Mr. Legoktm ported the checker tool to Tool Labs: toollabs:checker. Unfortunately, I think it's still broken for bnwikisource[_p]. :-) I can probably spare a few minutes to poke at this now. --MZMcBride (talk) 15:53, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
Hi Jayanta Nath. This link should work now. --MZMcBride (talk) 07:32, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
Oh!! Many many thanks MZMcBride! Thats great effort and keep it up! Now may be it should work for all non-latin languages.- Jayanta Nath (Talk|Contrb) 10:17, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Meet up with us

Happy May!

There are a few meetups in DC this month, including an edit-a-thon later this month. Check it out:

  • On Thursday, May 15 come to our evening WikiSalon at the Cove co-working space in Dupont Circle. If you're available Thursday evening, feel free to join us!
  • Or if you prefer a Saturday night dinner gathering, we also have our May Meetup at Capitol City Brewing Company. (Beer! Non-beer things too!)
  • You are also invited to the Federal Register edit-a-thon at the National Archives later this month.

Come one, come all!


James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 20:20, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Washington, DC meetups in June


Wikimedia DC.svg

Wikimedia DC has yet another busy month in June. Whether you're a newcomer to resource or have years of experience, we're happy to see you come. Here's what's coming up:

  • On Wednesday, June 11 from 7 to 9 PM come to the WikiSalon at the Cove co-working space. Hang out with resource enthusiasts!
  • Saturday, June 14 is the Frederick County History Edit-a-Thon from 11 AM to 4 PM. Help improve local history on Wikipedia.
  • The following Saturday, June 21, is the June Meetup. Dinner and drinks with Wikipedians!
  • Come on Tuesday, June 24 for the Wikipedia in Your Library edit-a-thon at GWU on local and LGBT history.
  • Last but not least, on Sunday, June 29 we have the Phillips Collection Edit-a-Thon in honor of the Made in America exhibit.

Wikipedia is better with friends, so why not come out to an event?


James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 01:41, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Articles with most stub templates

I don't know if we're allowed to request database reports from you anymore but I was wondering if you could generate one that determined which articles have the most stub templates on them. How feasible is this? Thanks, Harej (talk) 19:13, 14 June 2014 (UTC)


Have you migrated this tool to Labs? If not, is there an alternative? SpinningSpark 23:39, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

SS: I assume you're referring to tools:~mzmcbride/stalker/? I haven't migrated this tool to Labs. I probably won't. I don't know of any alternatives off-hand, but Betacommand or Dispenser have probably written equivalent tools.
The source code is here: <>, if you or anyone else is interested. It's mostly a matter of rewriting the get_namespace_names method, I suppose.
Broadly, I think the appropriate solution here is to build this functionality into the MediaWiki platform. I think we should either have "Special:CompareUsers" or "Special:Contributions?user1=Foo&user2=Bar".
Before we reach the promised land, if the absence of "stalker" is really going to be problematic, either I or someone else can probably move it to Labs, though it doesn't sound like a very fun project. --MZMcBride (talk) 14:27, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
Is there a central place to ask if anyone is interested in taking this on? SpinningSpark 16:35, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
Hi SpinningSpark. mailarchive:toolserver-l/2014-July/006576.html points to mw:Tool Labs/Collection of issues after Toolserver shutdown. Resource: Wikimedia Labs/Toolserver replacements, and more specifically toollabs:sigma/, were mentioned below, which may also be helpful to you.
Broadly, WP:VPT and m:Tech serve as on-wiki venues for this type of question, while Bugzilla and serve as places for more technical and detailed plans.
Hope that helps. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:31, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Archive your page, son.

Damn. Lara 03:58, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

L: Srsly. I hadn't realized you're back, allegedly. <3 As the kids say, get on irc, fgt. --MZMcBride (talk) 14:15, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
I'll see what I can manage. Lara 22:53, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Infobox hydrogen

Ambox warning blue.svgTemplate:Infobox hydrogen has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Ricky81682 (talk) 21:35, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi Ricky81682. Thanks for the heads-up. I commented over there a few minutes ago. --MZMcBride (talk) 14:10, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

The Great American Wiknic and other events in July

Wikinic 2013 washington d.c. 02.JPG

I am pleased to announce our fourth annual picnic, the Great American Wiknic, will take place at Meridian Hill Park in Washington, D.C. on Sunday, July 13 from 1 to 5 PM (rain date: July 20). We will be hanging out by the statue of Dante Alighieri, a statue that was donated to the park in 1921 as a tribute to Italian Americans. Read more about the statue on Wikipedia. If you would like to sign up for the picnic, you can do so here. When signing up, say what you're going to bring!

July will also feature the second annual Great American Wiknic in Frederick, Maryland. This year's Frederick picnic will take place on Sunday, July 6 at Baker Park. Sign up here for the Frederick picnic.

What else is going on in July? We have the American Chemical Society Edit-a-Thon on Saturday, July 12, dedicated to notable chemists, and our monthly WikiSalon on Wednesday, July 16.

We hope to see you at our upcoming events!


James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 21:22, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 1

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. resource appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Harris v. Quinn, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Pat Quinn (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 09:02, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. It looks like the wonderful GoingBatty beat me to the fix with this edit. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 03:31, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

A table showing the old Toolserver tool and its replacement

I started this table, and was wondering if you'd be so kind as to help fill it in a bit.

Link: Resource: Wikimedia Labs/Toolserver replacements

{{ Resource: Wikimedia Labs/Toolserver replacements}}

If it exists already somewhere, please say and I'll delete it. Many thanks, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:47, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Anna Frodesiak. I believe there's a similar effort taking place at mw:Tool Labs/Collection of issues after Toolserver shutdown, which you're probably aware of by now. There were a lot of tools on the Toolserver under my account and I can't really remember many of them. Most were not migrated to Wikimedia Labs, so there's not too much to report. yanker can be replaced by catscan2, stalker by editorinteract, checker was migrated to Wikimedia Labs by Lego, watcher was already dead... there were lots of other small tools and scripts, but probably not many more of note. Sorry I can't be of more help. If you need source code or anything like that, please let me know. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:02, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi there. Thanks for the link. Actually, the link is already provided at Resource: Wikimedia Labs/Toolserver replacements. I will have to leave it to others to update the table with the replacements you mention above. The reason is that I am getting a lot of blocks from here in China, so I can't tell what's working and what's not. As for the code, thank you. :) I'm sure stalkers here will find that useful. I, however, don't understand code beyond an ATM PIN number. :) Many, many thanks, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:15, 16 July 2014 (UTC)


Hi MZ, is Mr Bernstein merely taking a little vacation somewhere, or has he been discommoded by the demise of toolserver? ?ereSpielChequers 13:31, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

BernsteinBot appears to be doing some tasks, based on its contributions list, but has just missed a second weekly update to the List of Wikipedians by number of edits, which should have run about 75 minutes ago. I hope it can be brought to accomplish all its usual tasks soon. Thanks for all your work on this and other tasks. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:08, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi WereSpielChequers and BlueMoonset. Yes, Mr. Bernstein is taking more of a sabbatical than a vacation, I think. The number of edits report has stopped updating as a result of the death of the Toolserver. The bot continues to edit as a few reports were migrated to Wikimedia Labs under the "dbreps" account. I've tried for years now to find the motivation to fix up database reports as I think they're quite useful, but I'm not sure I can do it. There's little incentive to indefinitely maintain database reports and there are so many (over 100!) and they all need love. The overall architecture probably needs to be re-thought and re-implemented. --MZMcBride (talk) 01:52, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Anything you can do would be much appreciated. Thinking about it, these lists quite possibly encourage more content to be added than all of our editathon activity! Edwardx (talk) 13:19, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Thumbs up Agreed, encouragement is important! -- Djembayz (talk) 23:11, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
Not all BernsteinBot reports are failing to update. Self-categorized categories hasn't missed an update in many months. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:24, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Dubious stub categories is also updating. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:50, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
Edwardx: Yes, I think these database reports encourage and promote quite a lot of editing activity.
Redrose64: Right. As I said in my earlier reply, BernsteinBot continues to edit as a few reports were migrated (by Tim L., I believe) to Wikimedia Labs under the "dbreps" account. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 22:46, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks MZ for your long years of running this. If you could find time/motivation to resume this it would be appreciated, otherwise does the code exist/are you willing to publish it if we can find a volunteer to take over? ?ereSpielChequers 22:09, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi WereSpielChequers. The relevant configuration information is linked from the top of Wikipedia talk:List of Wikipedians by number of edits; it lives at Resource: List of Wikipedians by number of edits/Configuration. The source code is fairly straightforward. Updating the report requires installing wikitools and making a small file with the relevant username, password, database host name, etc.
Given the apparent popularity of this report and the fact that it doesn't really live within database reports properly, I can probably do the one-time setup needed to keep the report updating for a few more years. I'm running the script now in a screen session on Labs. Assuming the report successfully updates, I'll re-add the cronjob to my crontab and the report will be all set. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:46, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
How did that screen session go? If you really prefer that someone else run it, I'm willing to set it up to run on my PC. I'm more comfortable working in Windows. Should I install Python 2 or 3? Will need to give myself a crash course in that, but hopefully it won't be any harder than learning enough php to take over the requested moves bot. Am I correct in assuming that with the latest version you no longer need to download the latest database dump first? About how long does it take for the program to run? Wbm1058 (talk) 20:40, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Wbm1058 and WereSpielChequers, sorry for the delay. The script crashed:

mzmcbride@tools-login:~/scripts/enwiki$ time python
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 163, in <module>
    time_diff = datetime.datetime.utcnow - datetime.timedelta(seconds=rep_lag)
TypeError: unsupported type for timedelta seconds component: Decimal

real    717m0.256s
user    0m7.896s
sys     0m2.936s

I can probably just remove or fix the replication lag calculation. Though if you (Wbm1058) are interested in keeping this report updated... Python 2.7 is probably best and you don't need access to the XML database dumps, but you will need access to the replicated MariaDB databases via Tool Labs (the new Toolserver). I'll poke at this report again now to see if I can get the report to finally update. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:04, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Wbm1058 and WereSpielChequers: So I, uh, optimized the report a bit and the execution time dropped from 717 minutes to about 3.5 minutes. With that kind of runtime, this report will be run daily effective immediately. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:18, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
So, does this mean we won't see this updating for quite some time? CesareAngelotti (talk) 00:33, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Hi CesareAngelotti. Sorry for the delayed response, I meant to reply here earlier. I researched your question and I'm not sure what issue you are describing. According to the page history, Resource: List of Wikipedians by number of edits is updating daily now. What am I missing? --MZMcBride (talk) 01:27, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
It's updating daily but it appears (see these collected diffs for a month) to only be changing the date. I guess it's possible none of the names on the list have made any articles (or had any deleted) in the last month, but it seems worth investigating. Protonk (talk) 17:44, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
* Resource: List of Wikipedians by number of edits/1-1000
* Resource: List of Wikipedians by number of edits/1001-2000
* Resource: List of Wikipedians by number of edits/2001-3000, etc.
I'm afraid I don't see any problem. - Wbm1058 (talk) 18:02, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Nvm, captured a sub-page edit, somehow. Protonk (talk) 18:25, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
  • Any word on this, MZMcBride? Thanks, Drmies (talk) 01:18, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
    • Hi Drmies. I'm not totally sure we're all discussing the same issue here. Can you clarify what you're looking for word on? :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 01:29, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
      • Sorry--I have a one-track mind, I suppose. I was trying to find out what the status was of the--oh, I see it now that, ahem, this is about the other! So, I was trying to find out the status of the list of Wikipedians by number of articles created, and somehow landed in this discussion. I don't know if your magic powers extend to that list as well... Thanks, Drmies (talk) 01:36, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
        • Yeah, I think the same happened to me. Thanks for all your work! CesareAngelotti (talk) 03:24, 16 September 2014 (UTC)


Facepalm3.svg Test
Test Reedy (talk) 00:04, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
Reedy: Yes, hello. I'm here. --MZMcBride (talk) 01:42, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Stalking stalker

I am looking for the very useful tool stalker (User:MZMcBride/stalker) it seems to have disappeared. Is this an intentional vanishing act or a temporary misplacement? -- PBS (talk) 10:48, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Ah I have found the answer toollabs:sigma/ I saw the section #A table showing the old Toolserver tool and its replacement above. I think an update to User:MZMcBride/stalker would be helpful, so that others do not ask the same question. -- PBS (talk) 10:54, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
PBS: Yes, alas, poor stalker. Another casualty of the death of the Toolserver, it seems. I'm glad to hear you found an alternate tool. It also wouldn't be too difficult to re-use the source code for stalker, if you'd like. Personally, I think this functionality should be built into Special:Contributions or Special:CompareUsers or similar. It's just a simple intersection tool, it shouldn't be too difficult to replicate, properly integrated with the MediaWiki platform. If you think User:MZMcBride/stalker needs an update, be bold. ;-) --MZMcBride (talk) 01:46, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Courtesy note

I have mentioned the MediaWiki:Common.js change you proposed at Resource: Arbitration/Requests/Case#MediaViewer RfC. Cheers, 28bytes (talk) 14:44, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

28bytes: thanks for the heads-up, I appreciate it. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 01:41, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

I too have mentioned you and the code at the same place. Risker (talk) 22:26, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Risker: Eh, if you're going to make nasty edits, such as the edit linked here and the edit in which you add me as a party to yet another session of kangaroo court, I don't think you'll continue to be welcome here. I neither misunderstood nor misrepresented anything to Pete or anyone else and your suggestion to the contrary is rubbish. Pete didn't like and doesn't like MediaViewer and there was a clear consensus to disable it by default. As a means of demonstration, I tested a small snippet of code that would disable the feature and opened a discussion about it. It should come as a surprise to nobody that code in MediaWiki:Common.js applies to all users unconditionally. I even specifically noted the various configuration options available: "There are a variety of ways to make this code conditional, such as only applying it to users who use a particular skin (Vector, Monobook, etc.), users who are in a particular user group (autoconfirmed, sysop, etc.), users with a specified edit count or account registration date, and much more!"
I don't really care about being listed as a party-goer to this circus; whatever, it's the fourth or fifth or sixth case I've been a party to. Same shit, different day. But I unequivocally reject your suggestion that I'm culpable for Pete's actions or Erik's actions. I'm also a bit tickled by you accusing me of misrepresentation when your comment on this talk page regarding a "mention" has every appearance of being disingenuous given your subsequent edit within an hour. This was no mere mention, of course, you yourself added me as a party, nobody else having seen fit to do so. I'm not sure why you think you're entitled to poke the bear and I'd strongly advise against further aggression in my direction. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:18, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Risker: I hadn't seen your spat with Pedro before posting the reply above. Now having seen what seemingly motivated your actions, I've reverted your edit. You really are better than this and I expect better of you. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:34, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
I've always expected better of you, too, MZMcBride. You've disappointed me so often, too. Pete's culpable for his actions, and he owned up; from his edits, he did not understand that there was no way for anyone to enable Media Viewer. Your own edits do not say "nobody will be able to use Media Viewer if you apply this code as it is, even if they've already chosen to enable it in their preferences". There was no intention in the RFC to override preferences. And perhaps people who really felt strongly one way or the other were the wrong people to be applying code in relation to Media Viewer. But no, I've been thinking for several days that you should have been named as a party; the only reason I'd held back originally was that I still do not think a case should be opened. But if it is, I strongly believe you should be a party. I could understand the code well enough to know what it did, but your comments about all the options one could do with it didn't come with the code to do those things, and I will take Pete's word for it that he didn't understand he needed to add more to have the effect he desired. Risker (talk) 02:46, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
I'd be interested to read an ill effect of MediaViewer being disabled. Even if we pretended that I'm completely responsible for unconditionally disabling MediaViewer on the English Wikipedia, what harm was caused to anyone? You're inexplicably grasping at straws here, while proudly proclaiming that you "have a very good grip on what's going on here." Oh brother. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:01, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
People who'd already chosen to use it couldn't. It overrode preferences, for heaven's sake. And yes, I do get what's going on here. Risker (talk) 03:08, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
And yet nothing of value was lost. All core (yes, core) functionality continued to work. This is an area that is full of nuance and technicalities and, in my opinion, your protestations only serve to highlight a lack of wisdom on your part. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:29, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

It is going to be an interesting case. I hope we can put this event in perspective by documenting the causes, effects and rollback/fixes of 'breakages' which have occurred in the past from a) Common.* changes and b) software deploys. I will be stunned if MZMcBride's comment is found to have any bearing on this case, so adding him as a party would be a horrible waste of time. John Vandenberg (chat) 05:53, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Monaco

Hello. Why did you delete Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Monaco in 2008? I think this would be extremely useful, as people who visit Monaco or live there would then see which buildings or streets require a picture. Please reply on my talkpage. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:27, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Zigzig20s. Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Monaco was deleted as part of routine housekeeping as it was an empty category (CSD C1). Feel free to re-create the category as necessary and appropriate. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:37, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
P.S. Including a link with a talk page post is usually really helpful. :-)

ITN RSS feed

Hi, I noticed your edit here, and I clicked on the link, and it seems to be a mess. Is this website functioning properly? SpencerT?C 01:02, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Spencer: Hah! Yes, the site is functioning correctly. The contents would make a lot more sense if you were a robot. ;-) is an RSS feed that's mostly meant to be read by an RSS parser in a script or other program. RSS uses a simple (really simple, even) XML-compatible structure that computer programs can then programmatically read and use to know if there's been a change to a site. You'll see RSS feeds all over the Web, typically attached to blogs; in this case, the RSS feed is following ITN. Programmers and others can read the feed at <> periodically and have an easy means of reusing its content (i.e., the content of ITN) in other bots and scripts. Having a feed basically saves future programmers the time needed to read and parse the page text of ITN themselves. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:03, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
Ah, I see; thanks for the explanation! SpencerT?C 02:05, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Battle of Fort Stevens Edit-a-Thon!

Company F, 3rd Massachusetts Heavy Artillery, in Fort Stevens, Washington DC (ca. 1861).jpg


Sorry for the last minute update, but our friends at the DC Historical Society have scheduled a Battle of Fort Stevens Edit-a-Thon to commemorate the 150th anniversary of the Civil War battle fought in the District. The event will last from noon to 2 PM on Wednesday, July 30. Hope you can make it!


James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 21:16, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

JH: Interesting. I'll be at work. Hopefully I can catch the next edit-a-thon! --MZMcBride (talk) 03:54, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Unused non-free files

Hi Mr McBride. I am getting concerned because Resource: Database reports/Unused non-free files has not run since the end on June. I expect this has to do with the toolserver shut-down. There's plenty of other reports that have not run either, but this one is especially important, as there's copyright implications. I was wondering if you could help get this report generated, as there's likely a lot of orphaned non-free files that we need to delete. Any help you could provide with this problem would be appreciated. Thanks, -- Diannaa (talk) 00:44, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi Diannaa. I tweaked the report a bit and set it to update daily. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:45, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! There's not as many files there as I thought there would be! Here's another one, if you have time to have a look at it: Resource: Database reports/Large non-free files. It hasn't run since March and also involves non-free content, so it's fairly important. Thanks again, -- Diannaa (talk) 03:00, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Media Viewer RfC draft principles & findings

Hello. This is a courtesy note that the draft findings and principles in the Media Viewer RfC case have now been posted. The drafters of the proposed decision anticipate a final version will be posted after 11 August; you are welcome to give feedback on the workshop page. For the Committee, Lord Roem ~ (talk) 02:31, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi Lord Roem. Thanks for the heads-up. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:39, 4 August 2014 (UTC) Resource: List of Wikipedians by number of edits

Hi. It seems you are the operator of the bot updating this list. Would it be a lot of work to make the bot update a similar list also at no.wp? Resource: Liste over wikipedianere etter antall redigeringer hasn't been updated since 2011 when the old bot run by User:emijrp stopped updating it. Best regards, --Wikijens (talk) 12:11, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Media Viewer RfC arbitration case - extension of closure dates

Hello, you are receiving this message because you have commented on the Media Viewer RfC arbitration case. This is a courtesy message to inform you that the closure date for the submission of evidence has been extended to 17 August 2014 and the closure date for workshop proposals has been extended to 22 August 2014, as has the expected date of the proposed decision being posted. The closure dates have been changed to allow for recent developments to be included in the case. If you wish to comment, please review the evidence guidance. For the Arbitration Committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:00, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


Can you get this back running on Commons if you get a chance? Thanks for your time. INeverCry 01:59, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Media Viewer RfC arbitration case - motion to suspend case

You are receiving this message as you have either commented on a case page or are named as a party to the case. A motion has been proposed to suspend the Media Viewer RfC arbitration case for a maximum of 60 days due to recent developments. If you wish to comment regarding the motion there is a section on the proposed decision talk page for this. For the Arbitration Committee, Callanecc (talk o contribs o logs). Message delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) at 02:33, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Template name

Hello... This may mean a reach back seven years - sorry - but I'm wondering what the "dep" in "tldep" abbreviates / signifies / etc..? Regards, Sardanaphalus (talk) 20:50, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi Sardanaphalus. Looking at my contributions from around then, I'm pretty sure the template name comes from template links ("tl") for a deprecated template ("dep"). --MZMcBride (talk) 05:03, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

August 2014

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Third-Party Doctrine may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 ""s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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  • United States Supreme Court]] established its [[reasonable expectation of privacy]] test. In 1976 (''[[United States v. Miller (1976|United States v. Miller]]'') and 1979 (''[[Smith v. Maryland]]''),

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 04:31, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Quite, fixed. Thanks! --MZMcBride (talk) 04:53, 30 August 2014 (UTC) Resource: Database reports/User preferences

Hi, Resource: Database reports/User preferences hasn't run since 19 June 2014 - is there any chance of a more up-to-date run? Several gadgets are redlinked there, so I guess that they've been removed since June; and some newer ones aren't listed. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:43, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

BernsteinBot and Resource: Database reports/Polluted categories - broken links still being used in updates

Hi, I just wanted to let you know that BernsteinBot is still linking to two of your toolserver tools that, alas, were killed off by the tyrannical benevolent overlords of the Wikimedia Foundation. I'm not sure if you're planning to move them over, although I'd hope you consider it, but in the meantime it might be best just to remove that piece of code/formatting from the updated lines. Cat-fivetc ---- 08:34, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia and YOUR History: Taking Control of the Internet

Come one and come all. To a presentation at the Laurel Historical Society about how you can help verify, validate, and edit the information that is on the front line of local history.

Picture your self leading the masses to improve Wikimedia one article at a time.
  • Show the Internet who is the better editor.
  • Be the creator of culture that you know you are.
  • Spread the knowledge of noteworthy people who no one but you cares about.
  • Lead the charge to a better resource --- eventually.

Geraldshields11 (talk) 02:08, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia and YOUR History: Taking Control of the Internet

See you at the Laurel Pool Room, 9th and Main Street, Laurel, MD on Thursday, September 11, 2014 at 7:00 PM EST. See for more information. Geraldshields11 (talk) 02:13, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Wikimedia DC invites revolutionaries, free thinkers, and other sundry editors to a DC WikiSalon

The WikiSalon is a special meetup usually held during the first and third full weeks of every month, from 7 PM to 9 PM. It's an informal gathering of Wikimedia enthusiasts, who come together to discuss Wikimedia wikis and collaboratively edit. There's no set agenda, and guests are welcome to recommend articles for the group to edit or edit on their own.

If you're coming by Metro, the closest station is Dupont Circle (on the Red Line). If you're driving, a lot of parking opens up downtown after 6:30 PM, so finding a parking space (even a free one) should be easy. Once you've found the building, go to Cove on the second floor. We will be in the conference room.

When: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 at 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM

Where: The Cove, Dupont Circle, 1730 Connecticut Avenue NW, 2nd floor, 20009, DC

For more information, see

My best regards, Geraldshields11 (talk) 02:25, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Wikimedia DC's Wonderful meetups

Wikimedia DC's Upcoming meetups

  • Thursday, September 11: "Wikipedia and YOUR History: Taking Control of the Internet, One Article at a Time!"
    A presentation at the Laurel Historical Society about how you can help verify, validate, and edit the information that is on the front line of local history. Laurel Pool Room, 9th and Main Street in Laurel, MD. 7 PM.
  • Wednesday, September 17: WikiSalon
    Come for the pizza, stay for the conversation. 7 PM - 9 PM
  • Saturday, September 20: September Meetup
    Get dinner and drinks with fellow Wikipedians! 6 PM
  • Sunday, September 21: Laurel History Edit-a-Thon
    Local history for Wikipedia! 10:15 AM - 4 PM
  • Saturday, September 27 - Sunday, September 28: Please RSVP for the Open Government WikiHack at Eventbrite by clicking on the link. The National Archives and Records Administration and Wikimedia DC are teaming up to come up with solutions that help integrate government data into Wikipedia. 10:30 AM - 5 PM each day

My best regards, Geraldshields11 (talk) 22:49, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

A Request

Hi MZMcBride, Is it possible & can you make a tool that we can use on Category pages , Then it gives us the most visited pages of that category , for example in last 12 months. KhabarNegar Talk 09:31, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Broken report

The Stub type sizes page hasn't updated since June. Can you investigate and revive the automatic monthly build of this page? Dawynn (talk) 21:45, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Bot update wikipedians by articles

Can you please use your bot to update the Resource: List of Wikipedians by article count? I want to see how many pages i have now and it hasn't been updated since june 25th.--Old Time Music Fan (talk) 02:03, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Many of us would love to see that list up and running again! Edwardx (talk) 09:10, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
@Old Time Music Fan and Edwardx: If you just want personal counts, and don't need to compare against other people, try the "Articles created" link at the bottom of your contribs pages: Old Time Music Fan; Edwardx. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:04, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
ok. will it show the total or do i have to count?--Old Time Music Fan (talk) 14:12, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
@Old Time Music Fan: The main part of the page is divided into two panels, "Namespace Totals" and "Pages created". In the "Namespace Totals" panel, there is a pie chart (which should be all red, but for some reason there's a tiny white wedge as well). To the left of that pie chart is a table which looks a bit like this:
Namespace Pages Redirects Deleted
Article 908 0 14
908 14
On the "Article" row, in the "Pages" column, it shows 908. You have therefore created 908 articles; this count includes 14 that have since been deleted. Even if this figure were not shown, you wouldn't need to count manually, because under "Pages created", the rows are numbered. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:31, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Redrose64. I can do the new article count (I have a list of all mine on my userpage), but I'd love to see the table back and updated weekly. I think a little healthy competition does a lot to encourage the creation of new articles. Edwardx (talk) 19:00, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
Agreed, I like the extra context that these tables provide. Philafrenzy (talk) 20:33, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
Ok--Old Time Music Fan (talk) 22:17, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
Agreed from me too, I'd love to see the table resumed. Seeing oneself in the table was something of a reward. Declangi (talk) 23:58, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
I echo the requests for the article count table to be updated. Thanks. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 09:50, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Ello (social network)

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Ello (social network) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Osarius - Want a chat? 19:29, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

You're a very experienced editor, you've been around longer than me. What's going on with this? Errant mouse click?
If the company is really notable, please flesh out the article in your user space or draft space. You likely already know that an unsourced 1-liner article about a company that says nothing of significance will never last long in main space. ~Amatuli? (talk) 20:29, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
Hi Osarius and Amatuli?.
I'm a bit baffled by the reaction here. It feels incredibly un-wiki. We encourage new articles around here. We typically call them stubs. If an article needs improvement, you can click edit. That's the wiki process. That's what we signed up for here on Wikipedia.
If you think this company isn't notable, please visit my talk page (we're here now) and post like a human being. We can have respectful discourse about the topic. But please Jesus, no templated messages. Have you read that templated garbage that came along with {{db-notability-notice}} posted here? I just did. It's awful.
I'm happy to discuss the article or have it go through AFD if it's unclear or requires broader discussion, but this hasty deletion was simply disrespectful to a long-time Wikipedian. Please restore the page as soon as possible. This is most certainly a contested speedy deletion for the moment. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:01, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
I didn't post a template message. The article was a 1 liner with neither sources nor any assertion of significance, for a company that started this year and still in beta, so it's highly unlikely to have achieved notability as required by WP:CORP. I deleted it because I agreed with the nominator after a brief look for sources that yielded a lot of blog coverage. I'm happy to restore it to your user space for expansion, where it won't be in danger of speedy deletion. I have just done so: User:MZMcBride/Ello (social network). ~Amatuli? (talk) 03:46, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Frankly, I'm confused about the whole conversation. Let me explain: I am a new page patroller. I saw this page, and it was tagged for speedy deletion under section A7 as it was a one-line article about a website created this year which did not claim any significance. As for the templated message, I use Twinkle when new page patrolling. This makes everyone's life just that little bit easier. I am not going to spend my time checking who wrote every single article I come across before I tag it. If it meets the criteria it gets tagged, it's as simple as that. Osarius - Want a chat? 14:02, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Osarius and Amatuli?: the reaction here was incredibly and needlessly user-hostile. The article is now back in the article namespace and it has grown in the past 24 hours. That's the wiki process at work.
Nobody is arguing that maintenance work is unimportant (I've done more maintenance work than anyone here), but it's unacceptable to blame a tool such as Twinkle for the behavior of its users. It may be that this article is ultimately deleted or redirected to a larger article about defunct social networks, but that doesn't excuse the disrespect exhibited here. Please remember, in any interaction, that we are (human) colleagues. Templating the regulars or hastily deleting their articles is inappropriate. --MZMcBride (talk) 16:04, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Murat Pak

I clicked on the references and all of them led to the same dead link. If this is a valid article, something is wrong with the links, which makes it appear bogus. Donner60 (talk) 04:11, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

I have gone back and began to test them again. Now they work. I don't know what happened but evidently it led me to make a mistake. Donner60 (talk) 04:15, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
I have noted on the talk page of the Murat Pak article that the links now work for me. I wrote that I withdraw the speedy deletion nomination because the article is not a hoax or vandalism. My basis for the tag has now disappeared. I don't know what caused the mistake but I am sorry for the mistake and inconvenience. Donner60 (talk) 04:23, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Further comment on Murat Pak; Mistake on Salim Ismail

I suspect the mistake which led me to dead links was caused because I clicked on the links from Huggle. Apparently the links will not work through clicks on the article text shown on the Huggle page. I also made the mistake on Salim Ismail. I have been explaining this and apologizing on the talk pages of those interested in the articles. I reverted the tag and explained the mistake on the Salim Ismail talk page. I am not sure that one other article that drew my attention tonight is satisfactory. (ANZ Tech Ltd. is brief poorly written, may be intended to be promotional and three of the four links lead to pages that seem to have nothing to do with the company. On the other hand, they may have been intended to point to articles on previous days.) To be safe, because of the other mistakes tonight, I withdrew the tag on that article. I had not put anything on the talk page as yet. I regret the mistakes. I am not sure why I have not run into this before but I certainly will not click on links from Huggle again. I have nominated 63 pages for speedy deletion to date and 61 have been deleted, so I have not been prone to rash or incorrect nominations. Tonight I made some mistakes. Donner60 (talk) 04:57, 26 September 2014 (UTC)


Thanks. Your gentle prompt allowed me to recognize my mistake, eventually realize why I had made it, revert the tags and make the explanations before any actions were taken on the nominations and explain and apologize to all who worked on the articles or commented on the talk pages. I appreciate your consideration. Donner60 (talk) 05:46, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 28

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. resource appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Catfishing, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Notre Dame. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Fair enough. Fixed! --MZMcBride (talk) 15:37, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

The wonderful annual meeting! And more!

Our Archives.jpg

Hello, fellow Wikipedian!

I am excited to announce our upcoming Annual Meeting at the National Archives! We'll have free lunch, an introduction by Archivist of the United States David Ferriero, and a discussion featuring Ed Summers, the creator of CongressEdits. Join your fellow DC-area Wikipedians on Saturday, October 18 from 12 to 4:30 PM. RSVP today!

Also coming up we have the Human Origins edit-a-thon on October 17 and the WikiSalon on October 22. Hope to see you at our upcoming events!


James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 21:20, 5 October 2014 (UTC)


Hey MZM, did you ever port your stalker tool to WMF Labs? Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 23:41, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Self-categorized categories

Hi, why is Category:Eastern Mediterranean showing in Resource: Database reports/Self-categorized categories? It's been there since this revision, and it didn't qualify at that time. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:29, 8 October 2014 (UTC) Resource: Database reports/Polluted categories

I noticed that Resource: Database reports/Polluted categories had quite a few entries in it that looks like were incorrectly flagged as polluted. I went through about 10 categories there and only 1 of them actually was polluted. Additionally, the links after each page to sort the main vs. user brings up a 404 error. When you get a chance, could you take a look at this report and see what's up? Thanks, VegaDark (talk) 21:56, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:DDR row

Ambox warning blue.svgTemplate:DDR row has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:47, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

DB report

Would you have User:BernsteinBot update Resource: Database reports/Inactive users in user groups sometime? -- xaosflux Talk 16:36, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 11

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. resource appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited The Concert for Valor, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page John Oliver. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Whoops, fixed. --MZMcBride (talk) 16:46, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 19

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Internet Security Research Group
added a link pointing to Akamai
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Grah, I meant Akamai Technologies of course. Fixed, thanks! --MZMcBride (talk) 16:43, 19 November 2014 (UTC) Resource: List of Wikipedians by number of edits

Dear MZMCBride,

how do you generate the List of Wikipedians by number of edits? I would like to generate a pie chart like this for german wikipedia, but there we have opt-in for the list, so many are missing. I would like the get this data from a dump. Is this possible?--Kopiersperre (talk) 14:49, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi Kopiersperre. This subpage has the configuration information for this report (it's linked from the top of the talk page). The report runs from Wikimedia Labs (the replacement for the deceased Toolserver). The graphs, such as this one, were not generated by me, they were generated by other users. Hope that helps. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:21, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi MZMCBride, probably I wont have access to Wikimedia Labs. May you run the script for dewiki and give me the results? Or should I apply at Tool Labs for granting me access?--Kopiersperre (talk) 01:03, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Banners/Screen blockers

Hello MZMcBride. I saw your mailing list postings about the appropriateness of fundraising banners/screen blockers, and I agreed with your opinion. I've never participated in a discussion there, but I thought this recent "banner" went too far, for what it's worth. Do you? Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 22:11, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

toollabs:checker/ and Russian Wikisource

Hello! I am sorry to disturb you, but could you please add Russian Wikisource to toollabs:checker/? Thanks in advance! Hausratte (talk) 10:54, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

End-of-the-year meetups


You're invited to the end-of-the-year meetup at Busboys and Poets on Sunday, December 14 at 6 PM. There is Wi-Fi, so bring your computer if you want!

You are also invited to our WikiSalon on Thursday, December 18 at 7 PM.

Hope to see you at our upcoming events!


James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 02:22, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Wikimedia genealogy project

Just wondering if you have any thoughts re: the idea of WMF hosting a genealogy project. If so, feel free to contribute to this discussion. And apologies if I have made this request before. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:56, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Merry Merry

To you and yours


FWiW Bzuk (talk) 21:34, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Some bubble tea for you!

Bubble Tea.png Thanks for helping to defend my article! :) Adorabutton (talk) 06:08, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Hasty Deletion tags

Hello, it seems other users have taken issue with the speed at which I've been tagging articles, so in the good spirit of keeping things friendly. I apologize for debating the merits of The Railbenders, with you. In hindsight, perhaps I should've been a little less argumentative, and a little more reflective of my own actions. When patrolling new pages I tend to deal with so many blatant vandals and disregard of rules that I sometimes forget that not everyone is being intentionally disruptive, I have agreed to slow down my tagging, and be a little more objective when reviewing new pages. Enjoy the holidays. War wizard90 (talk) 07:25, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

A cheeseburger for you!

Cheeseburger.png Thanks for your work with VisualEditor - I'm a relatively new editor to Wikipedia, but it has been working very nicely for me :) ? Unicodesnowman (talk) 15:09, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Fuochi d'artificio.gif

Dear MZMcBride,
HAPPY NEW YEAR Hoping 2015 will be a great year for you! Thank you for your contributions!
From a fellow editor,
--FWiW Bzuk (talk)

This message promotes WikiLove. Originally created by Nahnah4 (see "invisible note").

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject X#WikiProject mailing lists

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject X#WikiProject mailing lists. Thanks. -- 23:15, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Is there any way to recover this IP talk page you deleted? I'm preparing a list for mass notification for a dispute resolution, and I want to see if this earlier participant in the thread is availble, or shows up elsewhere in it alreadyAnmccaff (talk) 19:12, 24 January 2015 (UTC) Anmccaff (talk) 22:40, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi. I'm going to assume you meant User talk:
(del/undel) (diff) 06:21, October 12, 2006 . . In the Stacks (talk | contribs | block) (170 bytes) (activity related to vandalizing left-wing websites)
date of resource activity corresponds with a dispute. General activity likely related to establishing a pattern of use beyond the dispute, but this issuse is here noted.
Killiondude (talk) 23:32, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Museum hacks and museum edits

Hello there!

Upcoming events:

  • February 6-8: The third annual ArtBytes Hackathon at the Walters Art Museum! This year Wikimedia DC is partnering with the Walters for a hack-a-thon at the intersection of art and technology, and I would like to see Wikimedia well represented.
  • February 11: The monthly WikiSalon, same place as usual. RSVP on Meetup or just show up!
  • February 15: Wiki Loves Small Museums in Ocean City. Mary Mark Ockerbloom, with support from Wikimedia DC, will be leading a workshop at the Small Museum Association Conference on how they can contribute to Wikipedia. Tons of representatives from GLAM institutions will be present, and we are looking for volunteers. If you would like to help out, check out "Information for Volunteers".

I am also pleased to announce events for Wikimedia DC Black History Month with Howard University and NPR. Details on those events soon.

If you have any questions or have any requests, please email me at

See you there! - James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 03:11, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Links to the userspace

Hi MZMcBride, just a quick heads-up, Resource: Database reports/Articles containing links to the user space seems to be broken judging by the latest update--Jac16888 Talk 22:38, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

@Jac16888: This sounds very much like the problem reported at Resource: Help desk/Archives/2015 January 31#User:ClueBot III/Indices/Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Encyclopaedia Britannica. Checking, I see that these apparent non-article pages are all listed as being in mainspace: (Book_talk), (User), (User_talk), (Wikipedia) so this is definitely the same database problem, and not a bug in the report. There is a phabricator ticket for this, where you will see that in the comment by Anomie of Mon, Feb 2, 4:30 PM, that the problem is somewhat wider than these pages, all of which are listed. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:31, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

I personally think it's a small miracle that the report is still updating. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:06, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Wikimedia DC celebrates Black History Month, and more!

Hello again!

Not even a week ago I sent out a message talking about upcoming events in DC. Guess what? There are more events coming up in February.

First, as a reminder, there is a WikiSalon on February 11 (RSVP here or just show up) and Wiki Loves Small Museums at the Small Museum Association Conference on February 15 (more information here).

Now, I am very pleased to announce:

There is going to be a lot going on, and I hope you can come to some of the events!

If you have any questions or need any special accommodations, please let me know.


James Hare

(To unsubscribe, remove your username here.) 18:20, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


Hi MZMcBride, Is it possible to come back in Arabic resource and activate again your bot ? --Helmoony (talk) 03:52, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Congregation Beth Adam

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Congregation Beth Adam requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about an organization or company, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Gbawden (talk) 06:56, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

About your (non)participation in the January 2012 SOPA vote

Hi MZMcBride. I am Piotr Konieczny (User:Piotrus), you may know me as an active content creator (see my userpage), but I am also a professional researcher of Wikipedia. Recently I published a paper (downloadable here) on reasons editors participated in Wikipedia's biggest vote to date (January 2012 WP:SOPA). I am now developing a supplementary paper, which analyzes why many editors did not take part in that vote. Which is where you come in :) You are a highly active Wikipedian (82nd!), and you were active back during the January 2012 discussion/voting for the SOPA, yet you did not chose to participate in said vote. I'd appreciate it if you could tell me why was that so? For your convenience, I prepared a short survey at meta, which should not take more than a minute of your time. I would dearly appreciate you taking this minute; not only as a resource researcher but as a fellow content creator and concerned member of the community (I believe your answers may help us eventually improve our policies and thus, the project's governance). PS. If you chose to reply here (on your userpage), please WP:ECHO me. Thank you! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:04, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Very short comment

Hi MZMcBride; No one can seem to get your user attibutes stats tool from some time ago to start working to update these stats and keep them up to date. Coulf you glance at it: [11]. LawrencePrincipe (talk) 15:03, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) @LawrencePrincipe: MZMcBride created a lot of reports on the old Toolserver. As this started to fail, some reports (but by no means all) were transferred to Tool Labs, a process which is somewhat more difficult than simply copying a program and starting it; in some cases, the whole program needed to be rewritten. When Toolserver went down permanently (July 2014), those reports that had not been transferred simply stopped running. This is why they are no longer updated. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:25, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
@Redrose64:; That's a very good explanation. I know that some of the stats like number of new users are still maintained. What about the other user preferences chosen by those new users? Are any of them still tracked, or is this a no win situation for people interested in these stats. Cheers. LawrencePrincipe (talk) 23:52, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 27

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. resource appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Initiative 71, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Questions and answers. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 09:16, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


Hello MZMcBride,

Thank for your reply. I'm not that technical of a guy sure how to use CSS. I usually add results tables on wikipedia. Perhaps you know how I can change the padding in existing tables like this Dave Marcis? Jahn1234567890 (talk) 23:00, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

@MZMcBride: Thanks for helping me out! Now I can peacefully go back to editing on result tables. Jahn1234567890 (talk) 23:46, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Editing for Women's History in March


I am very excited to announce this month's events, focused on Women's History Month:

  • Sunday, March 8: Women in the Arts 2015 Edit-a-thon - 10 AM to 4 PM
    Women in the Arts and ArtAndFeminism resource Edit-a-thon at the National Museum of Women in the Arts. Free coffee and lunch served!
    More information o RSVP on Meetup
  • Wednesday, March 11: March WikiSalon - 7 PM to 9 PM
    An evening gathering with free-flowing conversation and free pizza.
    More information o RSVP on Meetup (or just show up!)
  • Friday, March 13: NIH Women's History Month Edit-a-Thon - 9 AM to 4 PM
    In honor of Women's History Month, the National Institutes of Health (NIH) is organizing and hosting an edit-a-thon to improve coverage of women in science in Wikipedia. Free coffee and lunch served!
    More information o RSVP on Meetup
  • Saturday, March 21: Women in STEM Edit-a-Thon at DCPL - 12 PM
    Celebrate Women's History Month by building, editing, and expanding articles about women in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics fields during DC Public Library's first full-day edit-a-thon.
    More information o RSVP on Meetup
  • Friday, March 27: She Blinded Me with Science, Part III - 10 AM to 4 PM
    Smithsonian Institution Archives Groundbreaking Women in Science resource Edit-a-thon. Free lunch courtesy of Wikimedia DC!
    More information o RSVP on Meetup
  • Saturday, March 28: March Dinner Meetup - 6 PM
    Dinner and drinks with your fellow Wikipedians!
    More information o RSVP on Meetup

Hope you can make it to an event! If you have any questions or require any special accommodations, please let me know.


James Hare

To unsubscribe from this newsletter, remove your name from this list. 02:25, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Suppressing Infobox Person

Hi, can you give me the coding in my preferences to suppress Template:Infobox person in an article and to replace a photo if in the infobox with a formatted photo in place set at 250px with the caption given in the infobox? Just might save a few infobox disputes!? Dr. Blofeld 14:33, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Any reason why you're not willing to reply on this? Are we not on good terms or something? The name is familiar but there's so many editors here I have a hard job remembering if I've offended somebody. If you don't know how to or don't want to can you please just say "no" and I'll get the message. It amazes me that the website is full of technically minded people and a lot have knowledge of coding but nobody can help me out here. Infobox disputes are making things a misery for me on here, all I ask for is something to simply suppress Infobox person!? Dr. Blofeld 12:45, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

@Dr. Blofeld: It's possible that MZMcBride hasn't answered because they don't know. I replied at Resource: Village pump (technical)/Archive 135#Suppressing Infobox Person. Regarding your email: please see the reply that I gave at User talk:Redrose64#Email. Are you going to London tomorrow, or Oxford next weekend? --Redrose64 (talk) 13:42, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
Hi Dr. Blofeld. I saw your talk page message and your e-mail, I just haven't had a chance to reply yet. Let me take a look at the VPT thread and see if I can make some recommendations. --MZMcBride (talk) 15:14, 7 March 2015 (UTC) Resource: Database reports/Stubs included directly in stub categories Resource: Database reports/Stubs included directly in stub categories has not been updated since last summer. Please fix. Dawynn (talk) 14:08, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Permissions for edit notice editing

Hello, a proposal to change the permissions required for editing edit notices is taking place at Resource: Village_pump_(proposals)#Proposed_permissions_change:_Edit_Notices; as you have edited recent pages related to this topic your feedback is welcome. Happy editing, -- xaosflux Talk 21:59, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for the heads-up. I commented. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:27, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Eric Corbett's user page

Kindly stop warring or you will be reported. CassiantoTalk 21:01, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Wow. You're pretty awful. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:07, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
It takes one to know one MZMcBride. CassiantoTalk 22:07, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
Editing Cassianto's user page without his permission after he had said to you "With respect, it's not your place to start altering another user's page" is being deliberately provocative, regardless of the rights and wrongs of your edits. And just so we're clear, don't edit my user page either, please. BencherliteTalk 21:45, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
Your views here seem pretty anti-wiki. And these views don't really mesh well with the core principles of this site, in my opinion. We should embrace and encourage open editing. It's a fundamental part of Wikipedia. (Do you disagree?) I've always viewed it as quite deliberate that user pages are openly editable. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:17, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
I thank you for correcting any unintentional spelling mistakes, and I would struggle to find an editor who would not be grateful for you doing so. However, I take issue with you altering the text of another editor's user page. Your version came across as abrasive and completely adjusted the tone in which Eric was speaking. If you are that insistent upon it I would wait until tomorrow when he is back so he can answer for him self. CassiantoTalk 23:31, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
No problem. I think where we might have a disconnect is that I think resource is so much cooler when you come along and make a follow-up edit to the user page that (for example) improves the tone. And slowly together we improve the encyclopedia. A straight revert felt really harsh. Collaborative editing is awesome, in my opinion. Hopefully the user page can be updated eventually. I really do think the text and tone is out of date. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:41, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
It isn't your problem and you have been around long enough that you should know that. You have also been messing around with other user pages. Stop. Now. Please. - Sitush (talk) 00:43, 10 March 2015 (UTC)


A gummi bear holding a sign that says "Thank you"
Thank you for using VisualEditor and sharing your ideas with the developers.

Hello, MZMcBride,

The Editing team is asking for your help with VisualEditor. I am contacting you because you were one of the very first testers of VisualEditor, back in 2012 or early 2013. Please tell them what they need to change to make VisualEditor work better for you. The team has a list of top-priority problems, but they also want to hear about small problems. These problems may make editing less fun, take too much of your time, or be as annoying as a paper cut. The Editing team wants to hear about and try to fix these small things, too.

You can share your thoughts by clicking this link. You may respond to this quick, simple, anonymous survey in your own language. If you take the survey, then you agree your responses may be used in accordance with these terms. This survey is powered by Qualtrics and their use of your information is governed by their privacy policy.

More information (including a translateable list of the questions) is posted on wiki at mw:VisualEditor/Survey 2015. If you have questions, or prefer to respond on-wiki, then please leave a message on the survey's talk page.

Thank you, Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:13, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject Essays assessment question

According to Resource: WikiProject Essays/Assessment, your bot is supposed to populate Category:Wikipedia essays by impact, but the category is almost empty. Do you know whether or not Resource: WikiProject Essays is still active and if Category:Wikipedia essays by impact will ever be used? I'm trying to evaluate whether that category (and its associated categories) should be deleted. Thanks, ~EdGl! 04:35, 2 April 2015 (UTC)


Why reduce it? Can you think of a reason why an IP editor or a non-autoconfirmed editor would need to edit User:Winkelvi. -- PBS (talk) 19:44, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

To fix a typo? There's an example of a new user fixing a typo in the recent page history. :-) I replied here as well. In short: we should only be using page protection if absolutely necessary. This is a wiki, after all; we want to encourage and embrace open editing as much as possible. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:01, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
I saw you reply (not sure why you wanted to repeat it here as I do read my own talk page but I do not usually watch other users pages)!
"There are plenty of instances in which a user might want to edit a user page (such as fixing typos, updating categories, etc.)." This protection does not affect the editing abilities of established users and IP or non-autoconfirmed editors can ask for changes to be made on the talk page.
It is very rare that I agree with any hat Eric Corbett or his acolytes write, but I do agree with the sympathies expressed in the section "#Eric Corbett's user page" higher up this page.
BTW this talk page is way too big, it seriously slows down my browser, I think you should archive some of it. -- PBS (talk) 20:12, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
If I may interject here, it is supposed to be only the user (in this case, Winkelvi) that should be editing their user page unless permission is given, it's not a rule, but it is common courtesy. It is the same as editing other's comments on talk pages. The editor actually has left a note on their page that says to not fix typos now, because that's the way they want it. A user should be able to have their page anyway they want it, as long as it doesn't violate Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 09:56, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
Extended content
MZMcBride, I'm curious as to why someone I've rarely interacted with (if ever) is concerned about semi-protection in my userspace and is asking that it be lifted. If your userspace was protected, I sure as hell wouldn't be butting in and telling you or an administrator that it wasn't necessary. All that in mind, what difference does it make to you? -- WV ? ? ? 20:17, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
Your recent edits have apparently been calling significant attention to yourself. I'm not sure what's surprising you here. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:21, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
What's surprising is that anyone would seriously think it's their right and duty to fix typographical errors in someone else's userspace. Not to mention giving more than a second's thought about it. Surely, there are other things in resource that need fixing and need your attention where it would be appropriate for you to care and do something about it? In the future, please don't make changes to my userspace. If we actually knew each other or had some kind of friendly resource relationship established, I'd be more open to you fixing something, but as it is, no such relationship exists and editing another's userspace is really inappropriate. Thanks,-- WV ? ? ? 20:25, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

above collapsed text copied from my talk page -- PBS (talk) 20:31, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

RIP collaborative editing. Killiondude (talk) 15:58, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Upcoming attractions in DC


Here are some upcoming DC meetups in April and May:

Hope to see you at these events! If you have any questions or require any special accommodations, please let me know.


James Hare

To remove yourself from this mailing list, remove your name from this list. 22:17, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Mentioned on an AN filing

MZMcBride, I mentioned you on my AN filing, (not in a bad way ). Anyhow, since I mentioned your name, I thought I'd give you a heads up. It's right here if you want to add anything in. KoshVorlon R.I.P Leonard Nimoy "Live Long and Prosper" 11:17, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

BernsteinBot hasn't updated List of Wikipedians by number of edits since April 30

May Day was the first day it didn't update, so since it has now missed updates four days running, I thought I'd register a mayday in case there's something interfering with BernsteinBot. (It is doing some other tasks, but not this one, and maybe not others as well.) Thanks. I hope it's an easy fix. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:00, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed that too; maybe the author is unavailable due to illness (if so: get well soon!), or away on vacation? Otherwise, I hope it's an easy fix, too.
By the way: thank you, 'MZMcBride', for creating this very useful bot in the first place. Face-smile.svg
With kind regards;
Patrick. ? Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 16:54, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Yep, I was about to create a new section for this but found this. Adding a note that I'm observing this as well. Thanks! --L235 (t / c / ping in reply) 04:44, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
  • MZMcBride, If you could just give us a status update that would be great; if RL is keeping you busy, I totally understand, but if we know that then we can move on and quit worrying about this for a few days. Regards, Vanamonde93 (talk) 04:19, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Here's what happened: at some point, I believe WereSpielChequers requested that we link to the user pages of recently active (within the past 30 days, following the rules of Special:RecentChanges) users, and leave inactive (read: not recently active) users unlinked. The script loads every recently active username into memory (in order to reduce the number of database queries, I guess). Now either the list has gotten too large and/or the memory limit for this script has changed, so the script is dying/getting killed (MemoryError gets raised). I've removed the recently active part of the report and now the report is updating again. Does anybody still want recently active users linked and not recently active users unlinked? It doesn't seem like a particularly useful feature to me. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:54, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, friend. Personally, I don't believe that linking specific ones serves any useful purpose, given that the list itself is really only a feel-good thing. If the bot was misfiring, that would have been reason for concern. Thanks for all that you do, Vanamonde93 (talk) 05:48, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Hi MZ good to have the list running again, thanks as ever for your work on this. Dear Vanamonde, as I remember it there were three advantages to not linking the inactives or listing their userrights:
  1. It saved on bytes for a very large list. (One subfile just got over 7kb bigger). This is less important to me personally than it used to be, my cable provider has supposedly speeded up and I have upgraded my PC, so it is no longer pushing the boundaries of my kit, but it still takes a while to load on my PC. I'm sure there will be others for whom this is worse.
  2. It was a quick and dirty way to estimate community health, it certainly made it obvious that the higher someone's edit count got the less likely they were to leave.
  3. It made the list a much better prospecting pool to find people who could use certain userrights. Obviously there is no point assessing inactive editors for userrights, so this was a time saving filter. I haven't been very active in that area for the last year or so, and for a while we had a much more useful specific list for prospects for autopatroller. But this has been one of the uses that the list has been put to, and if there were a big increase in the use of wp:Pending changes then we would need to do another big trawl to appoint Reviewers, and this list was a pretty good prospecting pool when only active editors were linked.
Of course I don't know all the other uses that others have made of this list, and we may well be better off with the list as now is than perhaps updated less frequently but with an easy way to differentiate between active and inactive. Clearly for some it is just a feel good thing, a scoreboard for those with high edit counts. Though if that makes some editors feel good then that alone would make it worthwhile. ?ereSpielChequers 08:15, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
@MZMcBride: Very many thanks for fixing this, and for everything else that you do in support of our encyclopaedia. Face-smile.svg
With kind regards; Patrick. ? Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 11:31, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words, all. With this change, I'm hoping we're all set now. The report should continue to update regularly as it was a few weeks ago, with the activity/inactivity linking behavior. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:31, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Updating fine here. Your hard work on this is widely appreciated and encourages much content creation! Edwardx (talk)
Thanks MZ, much appreciated. ?ereSpielChequers 07:12, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

ITN RSS feed (2)

Hi, [12] seems to have died? Is it yours? Stephen 00:10, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi Stephen. That feed belongs (belonged?) to Svick, of course. :-) I still haven't had a chance to incorporate the ITN feed into my life. I think an IRC bot that reports new items would be really neat. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:26, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Article count

Hi, any chance you could do a one off "Top 100" users by article count? I can then keep a total myself.? Dr. Blofeld 15:41, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi. This is my most recent update about the status of this report. User:Visviva/List of Wikipedians by article count is probably the one-off report you want; the data is as of 2015-06-02 (roughly). --MZMcBride (talk) 05:46, 20 June 2015 (UTC)


I hate to feel that I'm asking for too much, while giving so little (though I am). However, could you please give your undivided attention to the article, The Style Council. All the best, for being the best Joe Vitale 5 (talk) 19:02, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi Joe Vitale 5. I saw that you left this note on three other users' talk pages as well as mine. I'm not really sure why you think The Style Council needs my undivided attention. Is there some kind of issue that you think I could help with? --MZMcBride (talk) 20:35, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Improving the article. Joe Vitale 5 (talk) 09:29, 22 June 2015 (UTC) Resource: Database reports/Unused non-free files

Hi MZMcBride, is BernsteinBot's task of updating Resource: Database reports/Unused non-free files affected by the wmflabs outage? B-bot (talk · contribs) uses a wmflabs tool to generate its list of orphaned fair use images and it looks like it will be down for a while, so if your list is going to continue to be updated, I would like to switch to using it for the present. --B (talk) 20:01, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi B. After reading mailarchive:labs-announce/2015-June/000041.html, I logged in to tools-bastion-01, became mzmcbride and dbreps, and fixed up their respective crontabs. The surrounding messages on the labs-announce mailing list seem encouraging, so hopefully reënabling these crontabs is sufficient to get everything that was running previously operating again. (Now if someone would just magically fix all of the scripts and tools that broke after the death of the Toolserver. ;-) --MZMcBride (talk) 05:37, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Obergefell v. Hodges

--BorgQueen (talk) 15:26, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Nomination for merging of Template:Scite

Template:Scite has been nominated for merging with Template:Ussc. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. -- SMUconlaw (talk) 20:25, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

A cheeseburger for you!

Cheeseburger.png For your contributions to Resource: List of Wikipedians by article count; enjoy! FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 01:08, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 19:22, 3 August 2015 (UTC)


you will find when reading MOCAPS that things like "court", even when referring to the Supreme Court, is not capitalized. Primergrey (talk) 02:35, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Template:Crackers listed at Redirects for discussion


An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Template:Crackers. Since you had some involvement with the Template:Crackers redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. BDD (talk) 13:33, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Hi BDD. Thanks for the heads-up! --MZMcBride (talk) 19:22, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Articles created by user

Hi MZMcBride. Thanks for getting the list updating again. There are some comments on the talkpage, here. I'd be grateful if you could take a look. Thanks again. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 18:15, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi. I saw the comments there in June. I didn't respond as I didn't (and don't) have much to say. :-) I left a short note just now. --MZMcBride (talk) 19:21, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Borked js

Hello McBride. I was recently made aware by an annoying dialogue box that I had to remove Lupin's popup js from my personal js file and enable it in my prefs. I did so and it hasn't worked since. Can you see if something is broken? I tried multiple browsers. I also tried to remove crap from this page as well as "installing" it a different way. Bleh. Killiondude (talk) 23:39, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Hello dude. Check your browser's JavaScript (error) console. It probably contains some vaguely useful information. As of recently, support for document.write and sajax has been removed, so if you see either of those words in your user scripts, it's possible your issue is near there. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:58, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
I'm certainly being thrown lots of errors in the console. None of them seem to be related to what you said, but a lot of my scripts have outdated coding. :) Here's the list: Thanks! I almost signed with my name. I've been writing too many emails this morning. Killiondude (talk) 17:14, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

I believe this resolved the issue. Great job, Killiondude! --MZMcBride (talk) 04:19, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedia protected templates

Category:Wikipedia protected templates, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Alakzi (talk) 11:15, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned talk pages

Hi MZMcBride. I see your BernsteinBot was the last to update the page Resource: Database reports/Orphaned talk pages, back in January. I was wondering if you would have time to generate an updated list? Thanks, -- Diannaa (talk) 23:45, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Hey, I just noticed the updated report popping up on my watch-list. I will add this report to my list of projects. Thanks, -- Diannaa (talk) 03:42, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Hi Diannaa. Apologies for the delay, I'd forgotten about your note here until this evening. It's really no problem to update the report as it's already been ported to Wikimedia Tool Labs (ssh -A -i ~/.ssh/id_rsa_labs; become mzmcbride; cd scripts/enwiki; time python Please let me know if you want to get set up on Wikimedia Tool Labs with a shell account so that you can run these reports yourself. Otherwise, if there are any other reports that you need, leave a note and I can take a look. I'm obviously incapable of keeping all 100-plus database reports regularly updated (for now...), but I'm happy to do manual updates of certain reports. These types of requests remind me that database reports generally are still a problem in need of solving. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 03:59, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
It's better if I could occasionally ask for help with a specific report or two, as I don't know nothing about python scripts or other coding-fu. Database reports do seem to be kind of a forgotten corner of the wiki. Thanks again, -- Diannaa (talk) 04:12, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Google News Search on Speedy Deletion Template

FYI: Template_talk:Db-meta#Google_News_Search. Jujutacular (talk) 02:22, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi Jujutacular. Thanks for the heads-up, I just commented over there. Feel free to ping me here or there if you need any help. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:12, 23 September 2015 (UTC) Resource: BADGER listed at Redirects for discussion


An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Resource: BADGER. Since you had some involvement with the Resource: BADGER redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Ivanvector ? (talk) 18:52, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Badger badger badger badger. --MZMcBride (talk) 01:58, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

BernsteinBot and Resource: Database reports/Most-watched users

Hi. Could your bot please update this page: Resource: Database reports/Most-watched users. It hasn't been updated for over a year. Thanks. --Kudpung ? (talk) 19:51, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Kudpung. I just left a note over here about that report: Special:Permalink/682335480#This is cool!. tl;dr: updates to that report are currently blocked on getting the data re-exposed at Tool Labs (the new Toolserver). --MZMcBride (talk) 02:00, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Hi. Thanks. This appears to be only the tip of the iceberg regarding volunteer-developed tools/bots, some of which we have grown to depend on and which are currently urgently needed. Do you happen to know who is directly responsible for maintaining the Labs server and Phabricator (whatever that is). Pinging Sarah on this too to keep her in the loop. --Kudpung ? (talk) 03:49, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
@Kudpung: Phabricator is the new Bugzilla. The shortcut is phab: --Redrose64 (talk) 09:32, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Hi Kudpung. Is there a list of urgently needed tools somewhere? Or do you have links to discussions about specific tools that are broken?
In general, we have millions of volunteer-developed articles that are in pretty poor shape... let's not give the volunteers who happened to work on tools/bots too much grief. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 21:44, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
What's happening is that because the Labs server performs so badly, volunteers who originally took on the task of migrating and maintaining their tools (and those of others) are now rather frustrated and are giving up. There isn't a list as such but I'm sure one coukld be made. One needs to put pressure on those who are directly responsible for and paid to maintain the Labs server.Kudpung ? (talk) 00:01, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Unserviced tool: watcher

Hi MZMcBride, I see that watcher is not working. Any chance that it will be up once again? LeadSongDog come howl! 21:04, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi LeadSongDog. The info action should be roughly equivalent to that tool, specifically "Number of page watchers" and "Number of page watchers who visited recent edits". Is there a particular feature or functionality that you need that the info action does not currently provide? --MZMcBride (talk) 23:02, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

No, thank you, I was just after the number of page watchers. Should the "Page watchers" entry on the "Statistics" menu be removed? LeadSongDog come howl! 00:11, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

LeadSongDog: I'm not sure which menu you're referring to. It possibly sounds like a user script or JavaScript gadget of some kind that you have installed on your account? --MZMcBride (talk) 02:23, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
Right, I had this js imported. Thanks again for the hint. LeadSongDog come howl! 12:50, 1 October 2015 (UTC) Resource: Miscellany for deletion/ Resource: Database reports/Forgotten articles/Configuration

As per Resource: Miscellany for deletion/ Resource: Database reports/Forgotten articles/Configuration can you update the Resource: Database reports/Forgotten articles/Configuration? If you can let me know so I can close the MfD. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 10:13, 5 October 2015 (UTC) Resource: Database reports/Empty categories

User:BernsteinBot seems to be malfunctioning at Resource: Database reports/Empty categories. It listed Template:Clh 5,990 times [13]. -- ?xplicit 01:29, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

No it hasn't. The report shows links to that template rather than transclusions because WP:TLIMIT has been hit. If you edit the page, you'll find that every single entry is of the form {{clh|1=...}} --Redrose64 (talk) 20:43, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

It was my best guess, please don't hit me. Face-sad.svg -- ?xplicit 06:34, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Right. The database report is also now helpfully categorized in Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded. :-) I started poking at this issue yesterday. The report exploding in size isn't really the interesting part, it's what caused that to happen. There's a related discussion here from my preliminary investigation: Special:Permalink/686565125#Category:Immediate children/.
The underlying issue seems to be that Peter coxhead made a mistake in these two edits, starting an HTML comment (i.e., <!--) without ending it. I believe this deactivated the categorization logic, which resulted in thousands of categories suddenly becoming empty.
There's another issue that I noticed that may or may not be related to Peter's edits. In addition to the loss of the categorization logic, the edit user interface is also super-fucked for non-existent categories such as Category:Immediate children/Blargh that auto-load an edit notice.
My recommendation here would be for someone to fix Template:Taxonomy key to properly close the HTML comment. That'll probably resolve the empty categories issue. If making that change doesn't also resolve the edit interface brokenness, we can separately continue to investigate that. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:31, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Lego fixed Template:Taxonomy key in this edit. The categories are slowly re-populating and the edit interface is fixed! --MZMcBride (talk) 22:57, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

I kind of figured that Peter coxhead's edit had something to do with it. At least I got something right... somewhere. Thanks for the fix! -- ?xplicit 06:34, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
Yes, sorry, this was my mistake. Please see User talk:Peter coxhead#Template:Taxonomy key for further comments. Peter coxhead (talk) 07:58, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
FYI, Peter coxhead edited Template:Taxonomy key again to remove the auto-categorization code, which I suspect is going to cause the database report to explode again tonight. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 20:13, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
This leaves me unsettled. I have CSD C1 hundreds of empty categories over the past week. Are you telling me that they really weren't empty? Sorry but I'm not fluent in template talk. Liz Read! Talk! 20:21, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
The only categories affected by this discussion are the ones whose names start with Category:Immediate children/ or Category:Immediate step-children/ . --R'n'B (call me Russ) 21:00, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
I'll be happy to explain in detail why all these categories have been obsolete since Taxobot and the associated tool stopped operating, but I'm a bit concerned about spreading this discussion over too many pages, so I'd rather do so in one place. Peter coxhead (talk) 21:21, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
R'n'B, a few of the Category:Immediate children/ or Category:Immediate step-children/ might have gotten deleted. I'll check the deletion log and see. Peter coxhead, you can have the discussion anywhere you want as I doubt I would understand the nitty gritty details! But other editors might. Liz Read! Talk! 22:16, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
R'n'B, the only deleted categories with that naming I could find were Category:Immediate children/Youngoolithus and Category:Immediate step-children/Youngoolithus. I'm not sure if these need to be recreated. Liz Read! Talk! 11:14, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Edit interface for "Category:Immediate children/..."

This was being generated, uselessly now, by code placed in Template:Editnotices/Namespace/Category. Can you please edit this to remove the check for "Immediate children"?

Or, alternatively, change the protection for this page to allow template editors to edit it and I'll do it myself.

I've blanked the template that was being called. Peter coxhead (talk) 15:02, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi Peter coxhead. Redrose64 or Jackmcbarn should be able to help you out here. You can also always use {{sudo}} on the talk page of a protected page. That's what I usually do. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:17, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
Ok, have done; thanks. Peter coxhead (talk) 08:28, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
The system works! :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 04:30, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

New mail

Hello, MZMcBride. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

--Tulsi Bhagat 12:02, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

TWA pages

What is your opinion on these pages? I feel that they should be taken to an MfD and deleted. (talk) --Preceding undated comment added 09:16, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

lol. Killiondude (talk) 00:03, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
Hi. These pages are related to the The resource Adventure? --MZMcBride (talk) 03:40, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
Yes they are. But these pages are quite useless and there are thousands of them, many of them years old. And if I may once use your argument, these pages exist only to pollute the database dumps. I don't think it would be a bad idea to delete the ones that are six months old or older, and which were created by users who now have many other edits. (There are also some users who seem to have never made any edits apart from creating these pages. In these cases, I am not sure if deletion would be okay since that would essentially wipe out the user's contribs history). (talk) --Preceding undated comment added 18:02, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Need your input for a dispute resolution

Hello, I noticed that you had some comments on the Bill Cosby talk page and was hoping you could help us resolve an issue. Please see the section titled "Discussion: Should the lead sentence mention the sexual assault accusations?". Thanks! Hamsterlopithecus (talk) 03:43, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

This thread is forum shopping and IDHT behavior. Hamster totally reordered talk page sections, placing them in opposite order and thus changing the meaning and progression. They also changed headings made by others, and also created an improperly formed RfC to hijack the discussion. All is now restored. We had a consensus until this disruption occurred. This is massive IDHT behavior, and this thread should be closed. Such behavior should not be rewarded. Hamster should be blocked for this. -- {{u|BullRangifer}} {Talk} 20:01, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
Hi. Such italics. If you're going to use obscure initialisms such as IDHT, you could at least make one of them a hyperlink.
This isn't really forum shopping. But it's also not really a necessary notification as I'm still keeping a fairly close eye on Talk:Bill Cosby. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:42, 29 October 2015 (UTC)


Unless required to by resource policy, do not post on my talk page again. BMK (talk) 21:21, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi BMK. I think you're lacking emphasis. Perhaps colors or using all caps would better convey your point.
This behavior is unbecoming of an editor and almost certainly isn't going to help in your bid to become an admin! --MZMcBride (talk) 22:03, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
Huh, I just read this gem. It seems you're closer to WP:RFAR than you are to WP:RFA. It looks like you may be in need of a break. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:12, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Let's play "My Favorite Canard"

Broadly, you seem to be arguing for the ad hoc creation of a community de-sysop procedure and you're asking the Arbitration Committee to inappropriately fill that role whenever the mob demands it. You may sincerely hold these beliefs, but they're still anathema to many contributors here.

Oh, I do so love this one! Please enlighten this moronic simpleton (your humble servant, aka "peon") what exactly is wrong with simple concepts like term limits and community desysopping? And please explain why the admin "mob" continues to spread the false meme that these democratic values common to most Western cultures are somehow "anathema"? Do you believe resource is a fiefdom for admins, where cultural values shouldn't apply? How that's working out for you in terms of sexism, the gender gap, multiculturalism, and all the other systemic biases that bring disrepute to the site on a daily basis? Why do you think the lack of morals and ethics by people in power should be emulated or defended? I think it is abundantly clear to me and most reasonable people that the values of "many contributors", as you put it, should not just be ignored, but disposed of in the garbage bin of historically bad ideas as soon as possible. It's amazing to me how many Wikipedians believe that consensus is equivalent to moral and ethical correctness. If there is consensus for a bad idea, you know what? It's still a bad idea! Even more amazing, is that you turn the idea of the admin "mob" who holds this consensus on its head, and blame non-admins for daring to demand accountability and responsibility, as if that was a bad idea. This is propaganda, nothing more. Even worse are the typical excuses we hear for why these things can't work: admins can't be constrained by term limits, admins can't be expected to work under the threat of losing their tools, etc. All of these are pathetic excuses with virtually no supporting evidence. It's a total house of cards. Viriditas (talk) 03:35, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi Viriditas.
I think it's possible that you're putting words into my mouth and assigning a lot more meaning to what I wrote than what's actually there.
In the quoted paragraph, I'm saying that someone is advocating for the ad hoc creation—that is, basically on-demand and without proper discussion and consideration—of a community de-sysop "procedure" that essentially consists of a bunch of people (affectionately referred to as the mob) calling for someone to be de-adminned, followed by this being carried out by the Arbitration Committee. I don't know what kind of democratic principles you think support trial by mob, but in my mind, this is problematic.
Was I discussing term limits for admins? No. I made no mention of term limits for admins.
Was I discussing the idea of an agreed upon, thoroughly considered de-admin procedure? No. I was specifically referring to the bad idea that a group of users can show up at AN/I, demand a de-adminning, and then the Arbitration Committee would file the necessary paperwork to do the deed. I don't think setting a precedent of following this course of action would ensure fair and just outcomes in the future. Admins should be accountable, to be sure, but we must also recognize (as I think that you do) that the group "consensus" can be wrong. If a group shows up to a noticeboard and demands that an admin be stripped of his or her privileges, that group can sometimes be wrong.
In my experience, just about the worst time to make hasty policy decisions is during a moment of controversy. Regarding "anathema," there are many people who feel that the Arbitration Committee is a failed experiment. Consequently, the suggestion that the Arbitration Committee, in addition to its ridiculous self-made Code Red I and Code Blue II de-admin procedures, be further empowered to de-admin by motion whenever demanded of it by a small group of angry users on a noticeboard, is quite distasteful.
Again, this is not to say that there should not be term limits for admins or a community de-adminning procedure. Both of these ideas are worth consideration and discussion, but neither are appropriate to implement in a moment of panic as a response to a particular incident. That's how not how good governance works.
I hope this reply clarifies a bit. I didn't delve very much into the specific case against Neelix that prompted these comments of mine. It's a strange and nuanced case and I'm not sure you're actually interested in discussing it; you seem more interested in discussing the larger issues (not that there's anything wrong with that!). However, if there are specific aspects of the Neelix case that you'd like to discuss, I'd be happy to share my thoughts on those as well. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:41, 13 November 2015 (UTC)


Are you able to update Resource: Database reports/Pages containing an unusually high number of non-free files/Configuration so it works again? If not who can? Thanks ww2censor (talk) 22:35, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

I think you can forget about this as this does the same job. ww2censor (talk) 23:39, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi ww2censor. Since you asked, I manually updated the pages containing an unusually high number of non-free files (configuration) report. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:31, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. Is that something that can be updated manually by regular editors or is it possible to fix the script? Though it may not really be really necessary. ww2censor (talk) 11:04, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the resource arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:57, 23 November 2015 (UTC)


Key.png What?
Well, I have no idea who that is, but.. here is a key... Anøn?mø (talk) 22:01, 4 December 2015 (UTC)


I sometimes wonder how many copies of all or part of my user page there are around Wikipedia. Not very often. I take it as a compliment. He shouldn't have used the admin one, though. Peridon (talk) 17:46, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Requesting to join a debate for James Stunt

@MZMcBride: I'm requesting you to join this Afd discussion. Your comment is valuable to us. Please help us reach a consensus. Thanks -Khocon (talk) 19:02, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Season's Greetings

To You and Yours!
FWiW Bzuk (talk) 18:27, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, you too! --MZMcBride (talk) 05:49, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Bot logged out

Good morning. Your bot is operating logged out. Could you please log them in. Thanks.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:45, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

See Resource: Bot owners' noticeboard#Breaking change --Redrose64 (talk) 12:28, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads-up. I saw the recent announcements about future potentially breaking changes, but this is much too soon to be that, I would think. I may wait a few days to see if this issue just works itself out. Feel free to block the IP address or the bot as necessary and appropriate, of course. --MZMcBride (talk) 14:56, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Just noting here that I just happened to see one edit from to Resource: Database reports/Empty categories (diff) just now. I don't know why the bot failed to log in. User sessions have been a bit fucked lately (cf. phabricator:T124440, etc.). Who knows if that is related. Looking at Special:Contributions/BernsteinBot, it seems the bot is usually logging in?

Special:BotPasswords is currently a red link. When it becomes a blue link, I'll see about generating a new password for the bots. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:56, 4 February 2016 (UTC) Resource: Database reports/User preferences

Hi! I was wondering if you could make one of these for the Norwegian resource (nowiki). We have a looooot of gadgets, and trimming the list would be great, but we really have no idea what's used and what isn't. If you could make one for us or point me to where to find the statistics in another way, that would be superb! Jon Harald Søby (talk) 14:41, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Jon Harald Søby: Hey! The source code for that report is available at Resource: Database reports/User preferences/Configuration. I'm not sure if you're aware, but there's also w:no:Spesial:GadgetUsage as of a few weeks ago. Please take a look at the Python script and Special page. If you would still like me to run a report, I'd be happy to hack one up for you, just let me know. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 14:50, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
Ah, great, that's precisely what I needed. Thanks! Jon Harald Søby (talk) 16:04, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Template talk:Short pages monitor

You may be interested in the discussion at Template talk:Short pages monitor#Need to define and possibly rethink this template. --Anomalocaris (talk) 23:43, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up. I commented over there. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:48, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

List of Wikipedians suggestion

I don't know if you've noticed, but it appears as though the bot keeps putting out "MM" instead of "IM". It's not a huge deal, but it would help to match it up with the key. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 23:26, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi Kevin. It looks like Resource: List of Wikipedians by number of edits#Key was not synced with Template:Abbreviated user group. "MM" isn't a typo, it's just currently undefined on that page. "MM" is short for MassMessage senders. I've updated the page. It would be nice if we could find a way to keep these two lists in sync automatically. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:51, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
Excellent, and thanks for letting me know! Kevin Rutherford (talk) 22:36, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Where's my name?

Ive created 196 articles. where's my name on list of wikipedians by article count? I deserve a slot here Magipur (talk) 17:12, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi Magipur. You are listed at Resource: List of Wikipedians by article count/5001-10000. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:32, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

February events and meetups in DC

Greetings from Wikimedia DC!

February is shaping up to be a record-breaking month for us, with nine scheduled edit-a-thons and several other events:

We hope to see you at one--or all--of these events!

Do you have an idea for a future event? Please write to us at!

Kirill Lokshin (talk) 16:40, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

You're receiving this message because you signed up for updates about DC meetups. To unsubscribe, please remove your name from the list.

Help with banner design?

Hello! In chatting to some fellow Wikipedians, your name came up as someone who may be able to help with this. I'm part of Wikimedia Community Ireland, and we are planning on running a user survey in a few weeks. For this we would like to have a geolocated banner for EN and GA Wikipedias. As this is our first time trying this, we don't have the experience etc of getting a banner created. I have added the banner campaign to the Meta page, and if you can help us, or know someone else who can, I'd be eternally grateful! Thanks very much Smirkybec (talk) 15:41, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) @Smirkybec: AFAIK the only geolocated messaging system that we have is the geonotice. Please note that on that page, requests for bannered geonotices are usually denied - geonotices are always textual. To see examples of code for current geonotices, there are five at MediaWiki:Gadget-geonotice-list.js - look for the word "text" followed by an optional space then a colon. To see roughly what the fifth of those looks like when displayed, there's an example at m:User:Redrose64#Geonotices - it's the large text after the words "which displays as". --Redrose64 (talk) 21:41, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
Because of its extensive use as advertising for the Wikimedia Foundation during the Wikimedia Foundation's annual fund-raiser, CentralNotice has very good geo-targeting capabilities now, as I understand it. CentralNotice is also what you'll need to use if you want to target more than just the English Wikipedia, as CentralNotice works across all Wikimedia wikis. But Redrose64 brings up a good point that we have all kinds of different software notices, in addition to other notification mechanisms such as Echo and user talk page messages and e-mails. We should make sure you're using the best and most appropriate tool, given the requirements. Smirkybec: I'd happy be to help, but it might be a bit early right now. When you're about 10 days out from when you want to run the campaign, can you ping me on my Meta-Wiki talk page and we'll figure it out? --MZMcBride (talk) 23:53, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of /wrists

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

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A tag has been placed on /wrists, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion debate, such as at articles for deletion. Under the specified criteria, where a page has substantially identical content to that of a page deleted after debate, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. -- Tavix (talk) 21:49, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi Tavix. Thank you for the heads-up! I've removed the speedy deletion tag and explained my rationale in the accompanying edit summary. Please let me know if you have any further questions or if you decide to formally nominate the redirect for deletion. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:59, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
Hey MZMcBride. I've readded the CSD since it says you're not supposed to remove CSD notices if you're the creator. Use {{hangon}} if you've got a strong case, but I'd rather not waste WP:RFD time since the last discussion was basically a WP:SNOW delete. -- Tavix (talk) 22:34, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi Tavix. As I said, the previous deletion discussion from 2008 really shouldn't apply to a redirect created in 2011 and nominated for deletion in 2016. If you have a substantive argument for deleting this redirect, you can use the proposed deletion or RFD processes, but I don't believe it's appropriate for a redirect to be eligible for speedy deletion simply for having once been deleted in the lifetime of Wikipedia. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:15, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
@MZMcBride:. The template says: "do not remove this notice from pages that you have created yourself. If you created this page and you disagree with the given reason for deletion, you can click the button below and leave a message explaining why you believe it should not be deleted." I'd appreciate if you follow those instructions and if an admin agrees with you, we'll take it to RFD. It's clear to me from the previous discussions that it is an inappropriate redirect. Besides, the article makes no mention of "/wrists" and there's no clear connection to be made. It's a WP:SURPRISE. Anyway, I'm going to re-add the template, and I'd appreciate if follow the proper instruction to contest the CSD. One more thing: redirects aren't eligible for WP:PROD. -- Tavix (talk) 23:24, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi Tavix. That template offers advice to users, but it is by no means a commandment. I agree that suicide probably isn't the best target, so I've changed the target to be self-harm for now. I also created the singular form (/wrist), as Urban Dictionary indicates that form is commonly used as well. I'm not sure how or why you feel readers would be surprised by these redirects. Thanks for the info regarding proposed deletion and redirects! It's admittedly been a very long time since I've worked with that process. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:32, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

User page

Ciao! I'm Adriano from First of all excuse me for my English. I had my first user page in on march 2004. After I tried to record an user page on but my name "Adriano" was already in use. So I decided to record the page under the name of Adriano C. Now I would like to create the user page Adriano transferring all that is present on the current page Adriano C. (redirect). I tried to create the page Adriano but being a page already been canceled seems to be impossible. How can I do? Please keep in mind that I have little experience with the computer and not a lot of confidence with the English language. Thank you for the help. Adriano (talk) 15:35, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi Adriano!
The page User:Adriano C. now redirects to User:Adriano and the page User talk:Adriano C. now redirects to User talk:Adriano.
The relevant logs are available here:
Hope this helps. --MZMcBride (talk) 01:08, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

--> Ehhhhh!!!! Grazie mille!! Thank you very much!! Do you need something from Rome? Adriano (talk) 17:27, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

March events and meetups in DC

Greetings from Wikimedia DC!

Looking for something to do in DC in March? We have a series of great events planned for the month:

Can't make it to an event? Most of our edit-a-thons allow virtual participation; see the guide for more details.

Do you have an idea for a future event? Please write to us at!

Kirill Lokshin (talk) 16:30, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

You're receiving this message because you signed up for updates about DC meetups. To unsubscribe, please remove your name from the list.

Nomination of STAND UP (organization) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article STAND UP (organization) is suitable for inclusion in resource according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Resource: Articles for deletion/STAND UP (organization) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Rathfelder (talk) 13:10, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for the heads-up. I left a note at Resource: Articles for deletion/STAND UP (organization). --MZMcBride (talk) 03:01, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Forest hills logo.jpg


Thanks for uploading File:Forest hills logo.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on resource under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on resource (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 02:26, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes, hello. File:Forest Hills Local School District Logo 2015+.png is the updated replacement image, so File:Forest hills logo.jpg is indeed no longer in use. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:52, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

You've been mentioned

...on phab:T129780. Feel free to comment :) (tJosve05a (c) 08:12, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 5

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. resource appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Election Support Group, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages SDC and TAF. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 10:57, 5 April 2016 (UTC) Resource: List_of_Wikipedians_by_number_of_edits/5001-10000

Your bot did not update the page today. 08:38, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi 333-blue. Looking at < Resource: List_of_Wikipedians_by_number_of_edits/5001%E2%80%936000&action=history>, it seems you're correct: the report did not update on April 25, 2016. The same is true of March 13, 2016. Missing one day a month isn't terrible. :-) Wikimedia (Tool) Labs has its ups and downs and is likely to blame for the missed updates. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:03, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

checker tools on toollabs

Hi, this tools doesn't handle some wikisource properly e. g. for s:bn:: ?.djvu the tools return a fatal error [14], I don't know if some other wikisource are also broken. - phe 17:11, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi phe. I hacked around this issue. The link you provided should be mostly working now. Basically the tool was broken because the proofread status could not be determined when querying the categorylinks database table on Wikimedia Tool Labs for certain pages. I added a small amount of logic to make the status "OH GOD" if the status is unknown to the script. You can force an individual page's proofread status to update by null-editing the page. A null edit will usually appropriately regenerate the categorylinks table rows. I hope this helps. We can blame/thank Legoktm keeping this tool running and helping me debug weird issues like this. --MZMcBride (talk) 01:18, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

API change will break your bot

Hi Max,

BernsteinBot has been using http:// to access the API, rather than https:// Access to http:// is going to be disabled in a few weeks. The official announcement and timeline is in this e-mail message. I've been encouraging people to go to Resource: Bot owners' noticeboard or ask on the mailing list if they need help with the updates. Please update your bot. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 23:30, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Who's Max? --MZMcBride (talk) 23:58, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Nomination for merging of Template:Scite

Template:Scite has been nominated for merging with Template:Ussc. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Wugapodes [th?k] [kantbz] 04:06, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi Wugapodes. It's been less than a year since this issue was raised. The previous notice from June 2015 is on this very talk page. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:48, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

2016 Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director Search Community Survey

The Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation has appointed a committee to lead the search for the foundation's next Executive Director. One of our first tasks is to write the job description of the executive director position, and we are asking for input from the Wikimedia community. Please take a few minutes and complete this survey to help us better understand community and staff expectations for the Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director.

Thank you, The Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director Search Steering Committee via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:50, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Nomination for merging of Template:No redirect

Template:No redirect has been nominated for merging with Template:No redirect conditional. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. PanchoS (talk) 09:44, 22 June 2016 (UTC)


Hi! First of all let me say that I'm python newby. I kind of tried to make phab:P631 more pretty with mwparserfromhell (result is here). It kind of works, but it has some weirdness somewhere in the code. After working on some pages it suddenly pauses for some while (it can be several minutes) without any good(?) reason. And no - it's not the check for namespace and redirect. Have similar script, which counts all parser functions at templates and refs at articles, but it doesn't pause anywhere, but the code is basically the same. Ideas? --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 13:47, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Hi Edgars2007. I guess put some print statements in there to figure out exactly where the script is stopping. You can also print or store the current time and re-print it or print the time elapsed between certain spots in the script to see where it's hanging. That is, extend the starttimetime code you already have to more places in the script.
One guess is that some particularly large pages are hanging up one of the parse calls, but who knows. You're using both mwparserfromhell and pywikibot in your script, which is basically the opposite of what I was trying to do in my script. :-) I was vaguely trying to make a standalone script that anyone with vanilla Python installed could run without needing to install extra modules. By the way, you're importing csv, urllib, and re without using them. These unused imports are not a big deal and are almost certainly not causing the weird performance problem you're having. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:59, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the tips. About vanilla Python part - hmm, you have to install bz2 module yourself, at least I had to. And standart easy_install.exe bz2 didn't worked. That was the main reason, why I tried to create my own version. About csv, re and urllib - yes, those were used in other script and I forgot to remove them. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 05:54, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
Edgars2007: Hmmmm, weird. The Python Standard Library index lists bz2 and the specific bz2 page says it's available since Python 2.3. The bz2 module should also ship with Python 3. Maybe it's something specific to Windows?
Did you figure out where the slowness in your script is/was? --MZMcBride (talk) 13:29, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
this is unimportant, just an update. Glued together a script, that works fine :) --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 11:51, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
Nice! --MZMcBride (talk) 12:23, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Question about categories - Category:......

Is there a policy on listing genus and species categories? If a genus is listed in the categories, and also a species, does the more specific species category make the genus superfluous and a candidate for deletion? I have noticed that you sometimes add a Supreme Court cases category to articles that already have a category listing for cases of the (C.J. name) court. Since the latter (CJ so and so cases) necessarily implies the former (Sup Ct cases), isn't the former an undesirable category listing? This is just a question; I would like to know the answer if you can tell me. PraeceptorIP (talk) 18:50, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

I checked with an Adm'r on this, See the entry Question about categorization at User talk:BD2412. He states that your practice is incorrect. Would you therefore please revert your entries of this type. Also, please stop doing it. Thank you. PraeceptorIP (talk) 01:37, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
Hi PraeceptorIP. Thank you for writing these new articles!
Category:United States Supreme Court cases has a pretty clear note on it ({{all included}}) that explains that the category serves to track all U.S. Supreme Court cases for convenience. If you look at Resource: WikiProject U.S. Supreme Court cases/Reports/A, you can see that nearly every U.S. Supreme Court case is in this category. The exception largely rests with a few articles, some of which you're the author of. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:47, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for the information. Maybe there should be a note on this under Categorization or some other appropriate place for the benefit of others. This seems to be an exception to the general rule to which User:BD2412 refers, against inclg. both genus and species categories. If the WP policy is to include both S Ct cases and CJ XXX Court cases in the categories listed I will follow that, but I would like to see a definitive resolution. PraeceptorIP (talk) 15:44, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) @PraeceptorIP: It already is, see WP:DIFFUSE and WP:DUPCAT. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:33, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

S Ct template

Why is {{scite|27|1|1829}} better than 27 U.S 1 (1829)?   PraeceptorIP (talk) 19:13, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi PraeceptorIP. Templates such as {{scite}} allow for pages—in this case, largely articles about U.S. Supreme Court cases—to share common styling and formatting. When using a template, we can update its code in a single edit and change the hundreds or thousands of pages that use that template. For example, if we want to remove a link or change a link's target, this can be done in a single edit instead of requiring hundreds or thousands or sometimes even millions of individual edits.
For U.S. Supreme Court cases, I think we should have a discussion and nail down how we want lead sentences to be structured throughout the English Wikipedia. I broadly see three options for the lead sentence: no citation, a plaintext citation, and a templated citation. All three approaches have merit, but I'm not sure we currently have a clear enough consensus on which we should standardize on. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:27, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
Nobody is going to update the form of citation for US Reports. It has been standard for many decades. The scite template is cumbersome and longer than the simple Bluebook citation in universal use elsewhere. Anybody who would cite 27 U.S. 1 (1829) in any other way has no business writing articles about S Ct cases. This is a template that should not exist. PraeceptorIP (talk) 23:30, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
Hi PraeceptorIP. {{ussc|123|456|2000}} provides several links; example: 123 U.S. 456 (2000). While the text string "123 U.S. 456 (2000)" might be a bit shorter (19 characters instead of 21 characters), using a template allows us to more easily update or change these citations in the future, including de-linking them, if that's deemed most appropriate. Instead of needing thousands of edits, we would only need one. As I said previously, I think we should standardize article leads to be consistent. Template:scite was an attempt to move in that direction. I imagine regardless of whether we standardize article leads, {{ussc}} and friends will be around for a very long time because these types of citation templates have widespread use outside of article leads and article prose. {{ussc}} is pretty popular, being used on over 3,000 pages.
I'm not sure if others have mentioned this to you, but for what it's worth, even by Wikipedian standards I've found your posts here to be both gruff and dismissive. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 02:05, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Dead yanker links in polluted categories report Resource: Database reports/Polluted categories links to yanker which appears to be gone. incategory: search links like this would be an option:'1017+deaths'&ns2=1. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:06, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Camp Royaneh page (deletion/revival)

Hello, I was wondering why you deleted the Camp Royaneh page on this day in 2007, I stumbled upon this when viewing the San Francisco Bay Area Council page. I was hoping to revive it, but before I did, I wanted to know why you made this descision. Thanks! ArrowHarp (talk) 00:51, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) @ArrowHarp: It was deleted under CSD-A3 which is explained here Mlpearc (open channel) 01:00, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Your comment on phab

There are a variety of welcome message templates editors can choose from. That particular one is rarely used. --NeilN talk to me 13:33, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Resilient Barnstar Hires.png The Resilient Barnstar
So resilient. Killiondude (talk) 02:52, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
Hi Killiondude. Thank you! I always try to finish with a smile. --MZMcBride (talk) 11:03, 14 August 2016 (UTC)


Hi MZMcBride, I did not specially name you as your action was made "before the close" of the new policy creating RfC - but you may be interested in the following: Resource: Administrators'_noticeboard#Administrator_Log and Resource: Administrators'_noticeboard#ECP_postings_to_AN. Best regards, -- xaosflux Talk 10:58, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Hi xaosflux. I think you may want User talk:MBisanz? I haven't protected a page here since January 2010. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 13:18, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
So sorry, yes. :D -- xaosflux Talk 13:30, 17 August 2016 (UTC)


Greetings, I've noticed that tools:~mzmcbride/redirector/googlearchivesearch/ doesn't seem to work anymore and have thus commented it out on Template:Db-meta. Do you have an idea if it can be fixed, or whether there is a replacement link? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 10:05, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

NSO Group has been nominated for Did You Know

Updated DYK query.svgHello, MZMcBride. NSO Group, an article you either created or to which you significantly contributed,has been nominated to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page as part of Did you knowDYK comment symbol. You can see the hook and the discussion here. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. APersonBot (talk!) 12:01, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

RfC: Protect user pages by default

A request for comment is available on protecting user pages by default from edits by anonymous and new users. I am notifying you because you commented on this proposal when it was either in idea or draft form. Funcrunch (talk) 17:29, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Editors Barnstar Hires.png The Editor's Barnstar
You did great. sbf1998? 07:11, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

DYK for NSO Group

Updated DYK query.svgOn 16 September 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article NSO Group, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the Israeli software company NSO Group has been identified as the possible developer of the iOS spyware Pegasus? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/NSO Group. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, NSO Group), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:05, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Pegasus (spyware)

Updated DYK query.svgOn 16 September 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Pegasus (spyware), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the Israeli software company NSO Group has been identified as the possible developer of the iOS spyware Pegasus? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Pegasus (spyware)), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:06, 16 September 2016 (UTC)


I see that you have recreated Template:ISBN. Please see the following:

This surely makes it eligible for {{db-repost}}. --Redrose64 (talk) 07:45, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

@Redrose64: The reason is that there is a plan to change the way MediaWiki works with magic links. See wikitech-l and mw:Requests for comment/Future of magic links which the former links to. It would have been desirable for MZMcBride to put some information in the edit summary. I guess someone would post at WP:VPT and other noticeboards, eventually. I am not endorsing the plan. Johnuniq (talk) 08:02, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Hi Johnuniq. Edit summaries have never been my strong suit. I didn't/don't want to call the "magic" syntax deprecated (it's not quite there yet) and I didn't/don't want to confuse matters or over-complicate them with a verbose edit summary. That said, if there are specific suggestions you or others have for a better edit summary, I'm happy to adjust. I thought "wrap ISBN in template" was neutral and explanatory enough. Perhaps the edit summary could better convey that there's no change in the output. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:48, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Hi Redrose64. Those discussions are more than a decade old now. The May 2005 discussion in particular seems to reference a different kind of template altogether. If you think a new discussion is warranted, please start one. I think I can hold my own in a discussion on the merits. :-) --