Talk:Soviet Space Program
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Talk:Soviet Space Program

In-Flight deaths

Sure, the Soviets had fewer in-flight deaths, but overall more Cosmonauts died. Remember many of the failures were kept secret from the public until the fall of the Soviet Union.

Wrong. There was maybe more land accidents, but only 4 cosmonauts died.
Only 4 died during spaceflight, but there were more Soviet fatalities than American during training. (Offhand, I can think of 4 or 5 deaths of active cosmonauts, depending on if Gagarin's co-pilot was a cosmonaut. Most of these were made public at the time, since they were cosmonauts who had previously flown. The main exception was Bonderenko. Also, I'm not counting ex-cosmonauts.) Someone is going to have to do a statistical analysis as to which had a higher percentage, although I suspect that the percentages for the two programs were rather similar. CFLeon 22:33, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I added the section on the pre-Gagarin flight deaths recorded by the Italian radio enthusiasts. --Preceding unsigned comment added by Fletcherbrian (talk o contribs) 14:57, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

The bit about the 2 to 3 cosmonauts that died before Gagarin are widely regarded as conspracy theory, as there's no reliable sources about it. If you would like to add the bit however, you should perhaps reword it as a rumour, not a fact.--142.177.23.126 (talk) 18:41, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Clean-Up, Please

Oh my god, this article is packed with grammar/typo errors. We need to clean this up. I nailed a couple, but am going to bed. Anyone wanna help? --Yeorin

I've done some editing; mainly deleting two sections (In-flight Deaths, and Reliability) that were extremely opinionated and did not concern the SOVIET program but reflected current circumstances. I couldn't rephrase them well enough to save either, so I just tossed them. Sorry, if anyone thinks they can return to a NPOV, please try; but don't just give numbers out of context and then say one is BETTER. (And whether or not companies use Russian rockets nowadays to launch satellites is pointless to discussing the Soviet Program) I also rephrased a few spots to be present tense, gave years for records and firsts, and alphabetized the links section. Still needs a lot of work, though. One thing very important is to decide is this entry on the Soviet Program ONLY? If so, the '90s records need to be excised. Also, there should be more on the years after Korolev, who died in 1965, 25 years before the Soviet Union fell. CFLeon 22:33, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Some more clean-up today: added some more records and deleted one (1998 orbital launch from submarine) as being non-Soviet. I'm also going to need the actual names of the first launches to Mars and Venus. Or is it better to rephrase it as first probes that actually succeeeded in BEING launched? CFLeon 21:23, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
So information was removed from the article because it was too positive.--Jack Upland (talk) 23:33, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Russian = Soviet ?

Russian space program redirects here: has Russia stopped their space program since the collapse of the USSR?

Good point; I've changed the redirect to go to Russian Federal Space Agency. siafu 14:27, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Luna 9

It may be a matter of terminology, but this says tha Luna 9 soft landed. But from what I read, it wasn't really "soft", just survivable (i.e. not a crash). Is that right? Luna 9 and List of space exploration milestones, 1957-1969 both say that Luna 9 soft-landed, so they might need to be corrected. Bubba73 (talk), 00:04, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Defunct?

Some other space agency articles linking to this article have a little (defunct) listed next to it. Is this really true? I thought the russians basically paved the way to space tourism...I'd say thats far from defunct. 72.1.206.17 17:20, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

The Russians still are, but this is about the soviet space program, which went belly-up after the USSR fell. --DiogenesTheHobo 03:41, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Vehicle with twelve crewmembers

Back in 1985, some people at NASA believed, "information from the Russian space program suggests that the Soviet Union will soon launch a space vehicle capable of carrying a crew of twelve, possibly as a prelude to a manned Mars mission." Was there any basis for this? What could the vehicle possibly have been? (sdsds - talk) 06:43, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Removed the "central planning" nonsense

"Central planning in USSR" refers to centrally planned economy as opposed to the 'free market' economy. While it may be argued as reason for general economic inefficiency of the USSR during its later years it is completely out of place as a reason for space exploration setbacks in this article. First of, it was precisely the central planning that made Soviet space program possible. Without centrally allocated resources and planned activities it would never see the light of day nor would it be able to compete against a similar space program undertaken by the wealthiest nation on the planet. Secondly, the US space program (or any large technological program, Manhattan Project being such an example) is equally 'centrally planned', financed and controlled. Very little if anything is left to the works of free market forces. Similarly the US space program has its own also sadly impressive list of setbacks and disasters. Therefore this paragraph should be removed as making no sense whatsoever.--Alvez3 (talk) 00:48, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, this article is biased. See below.--Jack Upland (talk) 12:24, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Article needs more balanced coverage

This article needs more balanced coverage, and I'm soliciting comments before making changes.

What's omitted is the circumstances behind many of the "firsts". For example, while it's true that the Soviet Union launched the first satellite, it's also true the United States *could* have launched a satellite two years earlier, and in fact had the satellite in storage. ("Wernher von Braun: Crusader for Space") Another example is that while it's true the Voskhod 1 had the first three person crew, it's also true that to do so, the crew had to wear no spacesuits! The "Buran" section makes no mention that the Soviet Shuttle was so widely recognized to be a tardy copy of the American shuttle, there were jokes and cartoons.

What's omitted in the article is a sense of perspective. Reading the "Notable firsts" section, a reader might get the impression that the Soviet Union was ahead in all areas, whereas many of the scientifically significant missions have been American, almost right from the start.

Some mention of the context of these "firsts" needs to be added. After all, popflock.com resource is not a "Guinness Book of World Records". Or at least, I remember reading that somewhere in the guidelines.

Leptus Froggi (talk) 15:28, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Non-free image

Please, note that File:Korolev_Kurchatov_Keldysh.jpg is non-free. I support putting it on this page, but this requires a use rationale placed on its description page. --Off-shell (talk) 22:12, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. I've updated the use rationale to include this, and another one for which it is used (seems to be the only image available of Keldysh, used on his page.) JustinTime55 (talk) 13:27, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Saturn Program

Is there any evidence to show the Saturn Programme existed? There is a lack of evidence from the Internet, and the entry has no references. Is it misinformation?Ornithoptera (talk) 07:43, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Seems fake. It should probably be deleted. 65.175.242.16 (talk) 23:52, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
I've deleted it. It seems to be a garbled account. See the information here:[1].--Jack Upland (talk) 10:32, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Problems

This article has many problems. Firstly, only 21 citations, far below the Pokemon Quotient. This, in an article about the first satellite, dog, man, and woman in space!!! Secondly, it seems hell-bent on denying the program's achievements. It has sections called "Incidents, failures, and setbacks" and "Canceled interplanetary projects". There is no corresponding section in the NASA article, despite the disasters of the Space Shuttle program. The article is laden with words like "failure", "setback", "disaster", "problem", "canceled", "abandoned", and "catastrophe", as well as "propaganda", "secret", "clandestine", and "cover up". The article foregrounds the involvement of scientists from Nazi Germany, even though they played a minimal part in the program, obviously in an attempt to minimise the Soviet success. You would never know that the International Space Station is dependent on Soyuz rockets. A lazy and biased article.--Jack Upland (talk) 11:54, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Just to add an interesting observation: As the above criticism made me curious I took a moment to compare with the NASA article, and I found that not only does the NASA article not have a similar section, but (using the page search function of my browser) I found that EVEN THE WORDS "incident", "failure", "setback", and "problem" DOES NOT OCCUR in that article AT ALL - none of them - not even once! (As for the word "secret" I found only an instance of the word "secretary" in the references). - Yes there absolutely is a very strong language bias going on here (as, might I add, seem to be a general problem of any article to do with the Soviet Union and the cold war). RP Nielsen (talk) 22:12, 6 June 2018 (UTC)


Hi I fully agree with the criticisms of the current version of the text. As for the "Saturn" program it is possible that the reference is the program Tsiolkovsky (what is strange is the year 2012). -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.180.61.60 (talk) 21:06, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

It's unsurprising when NASA is one of the major sources for the article.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:53, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

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Roscosmos

It appears as if this sentence may be out of date.

"With the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia and Ukraine inherited the program. Russia created the Russian Aviation and Space Agency, now known as the Roscosmos State Corporation,[6] while Ukraine created the National Space Agency of Ukraine (NSAU)."

The link is dead, and I believe that is because the name of the program changed again. All I see on the internet (including their most recent website) is Russian Federal Space Agency.

Does someone that has more insight into the name changes have time to fix that link and rewrite that paragraph? Let me know, thanks!

Kees08 (talk) 06:56, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

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Gagarin's death was not a "SETBACK" for the Soviet Space Program

Clearly, Gagarin could have been replaced by any number of fellow cosmonauts. His airplane crash wasn't even related to the Soviet Space Program. If you leave that in, why not add Laika (and other dog's names) as "setbacks" Jsusky (talk) 17:33, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

I removed the sentence.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:18, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

The article used to contain

Information about the German scientists and engineers being returned in the late 1940s. This information has been removed, and the wording of that segment changed to strongly imply that the Soviet Space program was only possible due to their contributions.--Senor Freebie (talk) 06:38, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I think that segment is biased, like the rest of the article (see above). What used to be in the article can be retrieved and reinstated. The current information comes from NASA, which is hardly impartial. However, Helmut Gröttrup returned to Germany in 1953, so perhaps the old information was slightly inaccurate...--Jack Upland (talk) 08:57, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

What happened to (the record of) the specifics in the "issues" notification box?

Last I checked this article I very specifically noticed that the notification box at the top of the page (the one that says "This article has multiple issues.. etc.") had a line that very specifically said something like "Problems include succesful launches listed as unsuccesful.." etc. It might have mentioned other specific issues, but this one is what I remember from my visit.

Today I revisited the article to find it again, for a screencapture, but I see that it's not there anymore. And what's more, I can't find it in the revision history either: Even when I look at the revision from 09:26, 8 March 2018, that must have been the version I was looking at (on 20th March - I checked with my browser history), but the "issues" notification textbox at the page top looks the same as it does now. - Does changes to the issues notification not register along with other changes to the article page?

RP Nielsen (talk) 21:31, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

I put that tag there in January 2016. There were no comments like that in the box, but I did outline the issues in the "Problems" section above.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:40, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
Well I remember very vividly seeing the "Problems include succesful launches listed as unsuccesful" statement at the top of the page, highlighted inside at least some kind of box in context of the "issues" notification. (I remember as if it was on a yellow background, but not too sure). And I'm reasonably certain it was this article (the article itself, not the talk page). I did also check the Buran (Spacecraft) article that day, but I don't think it was there that I saw it, and checking back on it; surely that article doesn't have a notification box, and, according to the revision history, didn't either on the 20th.. - 'Any idea of where I might have seen it? And where it might have been recorded? RP Nielsen (talk) 16:47, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
If it was on the page it would be in the revision history. Perhaps you're thinking of a different page.--Jack Upland (talk) 20:23, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

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Talk:Soviet_space_program
 



 



 
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